Should more sites weigh the bbs during chrono?

[mrfoxhound]

Which isn't really that different from the situation at the vast majority of sites.

"What weight are you using?"

"25s."

"Yeah, you're fine."

A) Player returns to his table and his bottle of 0.30g BBs.

or

B) When going out for the first game, Player resets his hop to where it should be.

You don't like the way AP do it, that is fine.  In all the times I have been there, I have never heard of anyone complaining about a potentially hot gun.

how would they know if they have a hot gun if no one Chronos .... not chrono anyone is lazy and  opens up the site to massive safety risk and consequences ..... your example is a classic of bad practice. but you can tell when people like that lie because of the chrono reading  

 

[Colin Allen]

your example is a classic of bad practice. but you can tell when people like that lie because of the chrono reading  

Err, no.  If someone's gun chronos at 310fps and they state that they have 0.25s in their mag, but are actually running 0.30s, it is very likely that they are going to get away with it at most sites, because very few sites check the power in addition to the velocity.

I use that example because I saw someone do it at a site; I ratted him out.

 

[mrfoxhound]

Err, no.  If someone's gun chronos at 310fps and they state that they have 0.25s in their mag, but are actually running 0.30s, it is very likely that they are going to get away with it at most sites, because very few sites check the power in addition to the velocity.

I use that example because I saw someone do it at a site; I ratted him out.

cant rat anyone out at AP cos they dont chrono

thats a big failure on the person doing the chrono by only measuring on fps and would be a site i would avoid 

 

[Colin Allen]

cant rat anyone out at AP cos they dont chrono

thats a big failure on the person doing the chrono by only measuring on fps and would be a site i would avoid 

You would be avoiding an awful lot of sites.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Ome of my old regular sites used to run in a similar fashion to how @Colin Allendescribed and didn't have marshals either and things ran fine. However I think it worked there as the site started as more like a group of friends meeting up to play rather than a commercial site.

At the end of the day the only way to completely eliminate any chance of anyone cheating the chrono is for sites to provide all guns and bbs, but we all know that's not going to happen. What can be done though is to put in procedures which increase the chances of catching anyone tempted to try so they either don't bother or go elsewhere.

i remember observing her have a big melt down on facebook claiming people where trolling her ,which turned into a large group of people gang stalking her on the internet and in real life , then she disappeared.... guess the gang stalkers got her 

That definitely rings a bell. Was the group TLA or ARABs?

 

[Rogerborg]

how would they know if they have a hot gun if no one Chronos ...

They provide a chrono so that players can check themselves.

thats a big failure on the person doing the chrono by only measuring on fps and would be a site i would avoid 

There seems to be some confusion here. If a site doesn't provide their own BBs or weigh the player's BBs, players can simply lie that we're using a lighter weight of BB than we're actually using.  It makes the Joules figures calculated by the chrono inaccurate.

A site that trusts players about what BB weight we're using might as well just ask us what energy our guns are producing. It's trivial for us to lie either way.

 

[Tommikka]

cant rat anyone out at AP cos they dont chrono

thats a big failure on the person doing the chrono by only measuring on fps and would be a site i would avoid 

All chronographing is by FPS

Anyone claiming to chrono in joules are  either a conversion formula within the chrono based on setting the claimed mass, or a reference chart of FPS to joules 

The ‘benefit’ of FPS chrono is that any weight can be chronoed without making changes to the settings 

Problems remain when chronoing with different BBs than playing, when not properly declaring the BB weight etc and especially when it is a lip service exercise 

 

[mrfoxhound]

Ome of my old regular sites used to run in a similar fashion to how @Colin Allendescribed and didn't have marshals either and things ran fine. However I think it worked there as the site started as more like a group of friends meeting up to play rather than a commercial site.

At the end of the day the only way to completely eliminate any chance of anyone cheating the chrono is for sites to provide all guns and bbs, but we all know that's not going to happen. What can be done though is to put in procedures which increase the chances of catching anyone tempted to try so they either don't bother or go elsewhere.

That definitely rings a bell. Was the group TLA or ARABs?

your pushing my memory on the group name tla sound familiar

They provide a chrono so that players can check themselves.

There seems to be some confusion here. If a site doesn't provide their own BBs or weigh the player's BBs, players can simply lie that we're using a lighter weight of BB than we're actually using.  It makes the Joules figures calculated by the chrono inaccurate.

A site that trusts players what BB weight we're using might as well just ask us what energy our guns are producing. It's trivial for us to lie either way.

i would say joules is a good constant indicator of bb weight being used , i rock up to the chrono with my dmr and its doing 350 fps, its has to be using 0.30/32 at 1.7/1.8 anything more its breaking rules, depending on site rules of course , its down to the rock ape doing the chrono to have the knowledge  

 

[Colin Allen]

your pushing my memory on the group name tla sound familiar

i would say joules is a good constant indicator of bb weight being used , i rock up to the chrono with my dmr and its doing 350 fps, its has to be using 0.30/32 at 1.7/1.8 anything more its breaking rules, depending on site rules of course , its down to the rock ape doing the chrono to have the knowledge  

That “rock ape” is possibly having to chrono 100+ players, many of whom have more than one gun to chrono.  Having done that job at two different sites, you have to take some of what you are told on trust and assume that players have not dialed the hop up as far as it will go, which does leave the process open to abuse.

However, the key point is that the vast majority of sites only look at the velocity limit for the declared weight.

Random in game sampling including weighing of BBs is possibly the best approach and certainly provides a deterrent, especially when the penalty is to be sent home.

One of the things that I really like about AP is that they stick to what they say in the briefing.  Unlike so many sites, they do not hesitate to send people home if they ignore warnings about hit taking, MED abuse and other poor behaviour.

 

[Rogerborg]

i rock up to the chrono with my dmr and its doing 350 fps, its has to be using 0.30/32 at 1.7/1.8 anything more its breaking rules

It would be even handier if the ape says "I hope you're not using more than 0.3g, mate, or you'll have to put it back in the bag", so that the player can just nod and confirm "Yeah, mate, yeah, I'm using whatever you just said" without even having to make up a weight themselves.

The reality is that measing velocity, but not mass, is like proving a car is efficient by providing fuel receipts, then saying "Trust me bro" about the taped-over odometer.

 

[Lyndication]

At a certain point you just have to trust other players tbh, otherwise why bother? 

It's all an honour system anyway.

 

[Tackle]

At a certain point you just have to trust other players tbh, otherwise why bother? 

It's all an honour system anyway.

Oh I trust them.........

About as far as I could throw them ?

View attachment 149930

 

[mrfoxhound]

It would be even handier if the ape says "I hope you're not using more than 0.3g, mate, or you'll have to put it back in the bag", so that the player can just nod and confirm "Yeah, mate, yeah, I'm using whatever you just said" without even having to make up a weight themselves.

The reality is that measing velocity, but not mass, is like proving a car is efficient by providing fuel receipts, then saying "Trust me bro" about the taped-over odometer.

like i said rock ape , someone who knows chrono  ,joules,fps and bb weight , pretty integral part of the hobby so they should know , the example you gave is a good example of  what not to do and should not happen that would also time to bring out the scales 

That “rock ape” is possibly having to chrono 100+ players, many of whom have more than one gun to chrono.  Having done that job at two different sites, you have to take some of what you are told on trust and assume that players have not dialed the hop up as far as it will go, which does leave the process open to abuse.

However, the key point is that the vast majority of sites only look at the velocity limit for the declared weight.

Random in game sampling including weighing of BBs is possibly the best approach and certainly provides a deterrent, especially when the penalty is to be sent home.

One of the things that I really like about AP is that they stick to what they say in the briefing.  Unlike so many sites, they do not hesitate to send people home if they ignore warnings about hit taking, MED abuse and other poor behaviour.

 I've been to sites that handle between 80/100 players regularly and have no trouble with chrono , and  people cheating the chrono are caught pretty quick and are removed before lunch , i dunno what the insistence is with not have better chrono practices 

 

[Lyndication]

About as far as I could throw them ?

I mean yeah, there's always one arsehole I guess. Maybe I'm lucky that sites I play at have 90% decent players who take the rules seriously.

Cos fundamentally whether someone calls a hit in this game is based on trust. I've watched plenty of players cheat my hits, even after I've made them flinch and shout about it hurting. 

There's tonnes of ways to cheat in this hobby but it feels like taking roids for Sunday league football at a certain point lmao.

If someone is gaming an extra half joule by using heavier BBs and risking being outed as a cheater for it, it's just pathetic innit. 

 

[mrfoxhound]

I mean yeah, there's always one arsehole I guess. Maybe I'm lucky that sites I play at have 90% decent players who take the rules seriously.

Cos fundamentally whether someone calls a hit in this game is based on trust. I've watched plenty of players cheat my hits, even after I've made them flinch and shout about it hurting. 

There's tonnes of ways to cheat in this hobby but it feels like taking roids for Sunday league football at a certain point lmao.

If someone is gaming an extra half joule by using heavier BBs and risking being outed as a cheater for it, it's just pathetic innit. 

that half joule might be enough to compromise eye protection! 

 

[Colin Allen]

SOME people cheating the chrono are caught pretty quick and are removed before lunch

Fixed that for you.  You don’t know about the ones who are not caught.

You may not have realised it, but that post was an admission that what you regard as “better chrono practices” are not as effective as you seem to think.

 

[Lyndication]

that half joule might be enough to compromise eye protection! 

If it is, you need better eye protection tbh. 

Like you should be able to take some ijit with a boltie hitting you at point blank, because it happens.

 

[mrfoxhound]

If it is, you need better eye protection tbh. 

Like you should be able to take some ijit with a boltie hitting you at point blank, because it happens.

 compromise eye protection involves more then breaking , involves straps , skin foam contact , stuff like that which i think people forget about 

Fixed that for you.  You don’t know about the ones who are not caught.

You may not have realised it, but that post was an admission that what you regard as “better chrono practices” are not as effective as you seem to think.

better then no chrono at all also gives better cover with insurance if anything happens,  

 

[Lyndication]

I genuinely don't get what you're talking about with the eyepro there boss.

A half joule higher shot can tear the straps? Or something about skin foam contact? 

Isn't your skin already contacting the foam?

 

[The_Lord_Poncho]

 compromise eye protection involves more then breaking , involves straps , skin foam contact , stuff like that which i think people forget about 

No idea whether it was as a result of a hot gun (but as the thread has taken a bit of a swerve, i'll mention it anyway!), but the first game I wore my shiny new bolle X800 knock-offs (bought from a legit UK retailer), a BB launched from at least 20m away shattered the plastic fitting that the elastic strap was fixed to, and they pinged off my face in the middle of a pretty hefty assault on my position from the opposing team. I'm sure the lenses themselves could have taken a huge amount of abuse, but there are other weak points (and possibly those weak points are not actually subject to testing by the manufacturer against the various standards?). Super bad luck - definitely, but I now inspect any glasses I wear these days for similar such weaknesses.