Which retailers in the UK accept Just-Cos Cosplayer Insurance?

[Cannonfodder]

If you're waiting up to a couple of months after the 3rd game to get your ukara number them that's down to the site owner being lazy, not ukara

 

[Rogerborg]

So if it looks like something that could have been plausibly produced after 1870 it would count as RIF (including sci-fi or video game or other fictional gun shaped objects that, basically, looks like a gun)

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/38

“real firearm” [in the context of a realistic imitation firearm] means —

(a) a firearm of an actual make or model of modern firearm (whether existing or discontinued); or

(b) something falling within a description which could be used for identifying, by reference to their appearance, the firearms falling within a category of actual modern firearms which, even though they include firearms of different makes or models (whether existing or discontinued) or both, all have the same or a similar appearance.

So I'd argue that (e.g.) a Pulse Rifle or an XR-5 is not strictly speaking a RIF, although all retailers treat them as such, even the BBgnuz4u ones.

The APS UAR is an interesting case, as it's not a replica of a specific bullpup, but it's got so many features from the L85, AUG and Tavor that I think it would fall into (b).

Contrast with the much broader Firearms Act 1968 definition: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/section/57

“imitation firearm” means any thing which has the appearance of being a firearm (other than such a weapon as is mentioned in section 5(1)(b) of this Act) whether or not it is capable of discharging any shot, bullet or other missile;

Which is why how we get our toys should be far less of a concern than what we actually do with them.

For example, that chap here who was determined to open-carry a Pulse Rifle on a bus because it wasn't technically a RIF... but would very much be an IF for FA purposes.

 

[Pseudotectonic]

(b)

something falling within a description which could be used for identifying, by reference to their appearance, the firearms falling within a category of actual modern firearms which, even though they include firearms of different makes or models (whether existing or discontinued) or both, all have the same or a similar appearance.

It needs to be read in full: (don't just highlight some words and ignore the rest?)

1. something falling within a description

That means something that can be described in a certain way...

2. which could be used for identifying, by reference to their appearance,

...by their appearance, that can point out...

3. the firearms falling within a category of actual modern firearms which,

...a type of modern firearm (e.g. pistols) that...

4. even though they include firearms of different makes or models (whether existing or discontinued) or both, all have the same or a similar appearance.

...can include different brands (e.g. Berretta or Sig or Glock) but looks the same or similar (i.e. a pistol).

So for example, a sci-fi video game pistol (e.g. from video game Doom), even though is definitely not an actual firearm, its appearance can still fall within a general description of a pistol, therefore it would be an RIF.

Another example, a fictional pistol (e.g. AI generated image) that has half a slide from a Glock and half a slide from Sig and a body style of a Berretta, it is definitely fictional, and certainly not any actual firearm brand or model, but because its appearance, again, fits the description of a pistol, it would be an RIF.

Same logic with the pulse rifle, because it has the general appearance of a real rifle, someone who is not a sci-fi fan and firearm expert won't be able to tell whether it is fictional or actual but certainly it will still look like a rifle, therefore can still be frightened into submission for example in a robbery, which is the whole intent of VCRA is to try to stop these RIFs from becoming tools of crime. (Whether the law is effective is a totally different topic)

So the law is actually (a) actual firearm or (b) looks like some sort of actual firearm.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Imo if you're unsure if a gun is a rif or an if ask yourself 1 question. Would Joe public shit themselves if you walked into the post office openly carrying it?

We can debate the legal technicalities till the cows come home, but at the end of the day most people know ⅘ of bugger all about firearms so would just think "gun" rather than "ooh  nice glock/sig/whatever"

 

[superwok]

Just wanted to provide an update...

I spoke with the retailer, and they requested the Just-Cos Cosplayer Insurance certificate along with a photo of me participating in an airsoft event. After reviewing these, they were satisfied, proceeded with processing my order, and confirmed that it will be delivered on Monday.

For the casual players who may not have the opportunity to attend events regularly. It presents an alternative path to legally acquire a RIF from a UK-based retailer. 

 

[Rogerborg]

ts appearance can still fall within a general description of a pistol

Which actual make and model of pistol?

The APS UAR is an interesting case, as it's not a replica of a specific bullpup, but it's got so many features from the L85, AUG and Tavor that I think it would fall into (b).

Replies needs to be read in full.

 

[Pseudotectonic]

Which actual make and model of pistol?

It doesn't matter which, because "pistol" is a category of actual modern firearms which, even though they include firearms of different makes or models (whether existing or discontinued) or both, all have the same or a similar appearance.

As long as something looks like it belongs to the pistol category, it already ticks the box. Anything that can be described as a pistol shaped object (with non unrealistic colour) would tick the box.

VCRA is written so it doesn't have to list out every single type of actual firearms that was ever invented and those yet to be invented in the future. If tomorrow someone invents a type of firearm that is a bucket shaped object you wear on your head with a cylinder sticking out in front, and call it a Headcannon™, it would automatically become a new category of RIF that new replicas can realistically imitate.

 

[Rogerborg]

It doesn't matter

"What Parliament meant to legislate was..."

 

[Tommikka]

.

For the casual players who may not have the opportunity to attend events regularly. It presents an alternative path to legally acquire a RIF from a UK-based retailer. 

Note that to be pedantic:

for an adult buyer in the UK it is always legal to acquire a RIF

any offence is committed by the retailer

By asking for a photo of you playing at an airsoft event they have not committed an offence under the VCRA, as they have been able to reasonably confirm intent to play airsoft at an insured site.

What they have also managed to do is to con you into spending £20 on ‘cosplay insurance’ which bears no relevance to the VCRA or to playing an airsoft event

What does the Just Cos insurance certificate insure you for?

Their web page says that it provides “Public Liability insurance in their right as a re-enactor to wear and carry costume articles that may prove alarming or ‘scary’ to third parties who may not understand our purpose. This policy particularly covers the right to carry imitation weaponry that could otherwise be mistaken as real or mistakenly reported as an offensive weapon.”

What injury / damage is your JustCos going to pay out for a third party being alarmed or scared?

https://www.just-cos.co.uk

The skirmisher defence under the VCRA requires the site/event to have public liability insurance, for the injury of you/third parties or the damages/losses to you/third parties. 

 

[Pseudotectonic]

(VCRA RIF Regulations 2007) Just-Cos insurance can fulfil the third party liability insurance requirement for the "permitted activity" which just means "acting out of military or law enforcement scenarios for the purposes of recreation", which of course include skirmishing, but arguably cosplay also falls into such recreation, and indeed one can argue airsoft skirmishing is just a cosplay event with some procedural competitive acting.

 

[Tommikka]

(VCRA RIF Regulations 2007) Just-Cos insurance can fulfil the third party liability insurance requirement for the "permitted activity"

It could provide the third party liability - but then why ask for a photo playing at an event - which backs up playing at what should be an insured site/event?

", which of course include skirmishing, but arguably cosplay also falls into such recreation, and indeed one can argue airsoft skirmishing is just a cosplay event with some procedural competitive acting.

It could be argued that airsoft is cosplay skirmishing (a very good argument as the look is the case that backed up a need for RIFs to be realistic - otherwise for just shooting each other IFs would do)

But cosplay in itself isn’t a defence (airsoft skirmishing isn’t even a defence under the core VCRA as a statutory instrument was used to add skirmishing)

The JustCos public liability as described in the justcos site is a load of bollocks - insuring against hurt feelings.  What liability is there for injury/damages/losses due to seeing a RIF that JustCos will pay for ?

 

[Pseudotectonic]

Photo is just for the "permitted activity" part, because the insurance itself is not proof of the activity. With UKARA the site handles checking the ID check etc to prove you actually play, but with your own insurance and your own activity you gotta show something to prove what you are doing with the RIF, so the seller can have the defence.

--

Although, looking at the Just-Cos website it does seem very dodgy because there is no contact information and zero info about the exact policy or even who is the provider of the insurance... not even company name or company registration number... on that basis I would avoid it.

 

[Dan Robinson]

It's a website that doesn't look like it's been updated for 7 years.  I'm not sure I'd trust it much more than I could wipe my arse with it.

 

[GenuineGerman]

That does look odd, I would expect a website to state a basic detail of what you get for signing up and paying for pli. 
 

If I’m honest it looks like an easy way to get money (not calling it a scam) without much of a service to provide. I would be very worried if I had it and ever needed to use it. 

 

[Colin Allen]

I am really not sure what they are providing insurance against; they mention public liability relating to dressing up and carrying "scary" items including imitation weaponry or having such reported as being an offensive weapon, but what are the members actually being insured against?

Public liability insurance covers against the cost of claims for:
Personal injuries
Loss of, or damage to, property
Death

You cannot insure against being arrested for carrying a RIF or any type of offensive weapon or for dressing up as something scary.  Perhaps the insurance is in case someone has a heart attack or is injured running away from what they perceive to be someone wielding a gun or dressed as a a monster.

It does seem that it might better be called Just-Con.

 

[Tommikka]

@superwok If you could post up the policy wording, or pick out a couple of points such as the underwriter and the sections on what they actually cover then that would be highly informative on any actual value of JustCos

For those who have been around the block a few times, it’s just fleecing players of an extra £20

The policy is the key unknown 

 

[superwok]

@superwok If you could post up the policy wording, or pick out a couple of points such as the underwriter and the sections on what they actually cover then that would be highly informative on any actual value of JustCos

For those who have been around the block a few times, it’s just fleecing players of an extra £20

The policy is the key unknown 

The confirmation ultimately rests with the retailer. I have inquired about their willingness to proceed, and they have consented. Therefore, it hinges on the retailer's terms and conditions whether they choose to accept or reject. Should the retailer be dissatisfied, they have the right to refuse, by accepting, they take on the associated responsibilities.

Note that to be pedantic:

for an adult buyer in the UK it is always legal to acquire a RIF

any offence is committed by the retailer

By asking for a photo of you playing at an airsoft event they have not committed an offence under the VCRA, as they have been able to reasonably confirm intent to play airsoft at an insured site.

What they have also managed to do is to con you into spending £20 on ‘cosplay insurance’ which bears no relevance to the VCRA or to playing an airsoft event

What does the Just Cos insurance certificate insure you for?

Their web page says that it provides “Public Liability insurance in their right as a re-enactor to wear and carry costume articles that may prove alarming or ‘scary’ to third parties who may not understand our purpose. This policy particularly covers the right to carry imitation weaponry that could otherwise be mistaken as real or mistakenly reported as an offensive weapon.”

What injury / damage is your JustCos going to pay out for a third party being alarmed or scared?

https://www.just-cos.co.uk

The skirmisher defence under the VCRA requires the site/event to have public liability insurance, for the injury of you/third parties or the damages/losses to you/third parties. 

This £20 my be a con to you but not to me, this has allowed me to buy the RIF I want without the need of it being two toned, (also the sites I play at the most do not allow 2 tone rifs) or having to attend the 3 games needed for the UKRA, so it has saved time and hassle on my part.

 

[DanBow]

 (also the sites I play at the most do not allow 2 tone rifs) 

That sounds very suss, what are the reasons for not allowing 2 tone rifs?

 

[JinxDuh]

That sounds very suss, what are the reasons for not allowing 2 tone rifs?

A site turning down money because a replica is bright blue? Not a very good business move imo

 

[superwok]

Regardless of personal opinions or suspicions, the Just-Cos Cosplayer Insurance is a means to acquire RIFs. While not universally accepted, it aligns with the requirements of certain retailers. A UKARA is essential for purchasing, though not for owning, an RIF, presenting an alternative approach. It's important to note that the validity of claims is generally low, as airsoft events usually offer public liability insurance. Carrying RIFs in public contravenes the law, and insurance invariably excludes illegal activities. Thus, the Just-Cos Cosplayer Insurance is an alternate solution, with any issues to be resolved by the accepting retailers.

Many have expressed frustration here, which is pointless in this forum but meaningful action requires more than voicing discontent. I encourage you to advocate for change by contacting retailers to discontinue its use of the Just-Cos Cosplayer Insurance m and engaging with your local MP about this issue. Debating here often circles back to the same points without progress. My initial query was to identify which retailers accept this insurance, not to collect opinions because it is boring now. If change is your goal, I suggest moving from discussion in this forum to actually action.

A site turning down money because a replica is bright blue? Not a very good business move imo

this is UCAP airsoft a very popular and well ran sites, i would suggest checking them out !!!