Opinions on UKAPU

[Colin Allen]

This is what I gave sent them:

Dear Sirs,
 

As a member of UKAPU, I am deeply concerned that you have failed to abide by the latest published version of the Association's constitution, in that you have failed to give members the 28 days written notice of the 2023 AGM that is required by the Association's constitution.
 

I understand that the AGM is due to take place at 7PM on 22nd June.  
 

I note that the latest published version of the constitution states that one purpose of the AGM is to elect the Executive Officers; the constitution states that nominations must be made to the secretary in writing at least 45 days before the date of the AGM.  You have not notified members of this, making it impossible for members to nominate Executive Officers.
 

Therefore, I am calling on you to cancel the AGM on 22nd June and rearrange for a date that will enable you to:
 

1. Notify members of their right to nominate Executive Officers and allow them sufficient time to do so bearing in mind the 45 day cutoff.

2. Notify members of the date, time, location (if physical) or access arrangements (if online) at least 28 days before the date of the meeting.

3. Inform members that they can raise any matter at the AGM, provided that they give the secretary at least 14 days written notice.

I await your response.

 I believe the references to 'proposed bans' etc relate to the VCRA 2007 bill. @Cannonfodder if you would like I will try to find more information relating to this.

But UKAPU was founded in 2009 or 2010?

 

[Asomodai]

You've not informed the membership of the AGM, you've not given sufficient notice for the AGM, and you've certainly not given any notice to members concerning election of officers, or the opportunity to nominate members to stand as candidates prior to officer elections.

Additionally, it doesn't appear officers were elected in 2018 or 2019, which was concerning, since they're supposed to be elected annually for a 1-year post...

2020 and 2021 seem to have been pretty much the same people being uncontested and voted unanimously, which is a concern given how badly basic communication and governance seem to be going (or not going) ?

I am pretty annoyed at the lack of communication as well. I pay my subs and I don't get even the bare minimum in comms. I missed out on the last AGM due to not even realising it was going ahead. 

However to be fair, very few candidates stand for positions at all. So most do get accepted by default. 

Though there was an AGM last year that I attended where we blocked someone who was quite unsuitable due to their dicey past personal relationship with the incumbent. 

 

[Jacob Wright]

Thank you for the replies. I should make it clear now that I misconstrued a message sent to me. A meeting is planned for 22nd of June, but this is not the AGM.

 

[typefish]

Hello.

Just thought I'd post in this topic just to clear up a couple of comments here.

The meeting that has been previously announced here that is being held on the 22nd of this month is not an AGM, it is an emergency management meeting, which is being held to replace myself as chairman, as I'm resigning.

Once that emergency meeting has occurred, and a new chairperson elected, we will begin the process of organising, and notifying our members about an upcoming AGM.

I won't go into details in full as to why I'm resigning on here (as I'll leave that to a press release to be done at a later date) but essentially dealing with the absolute mess that was the Coronavirus regulations pretty much made me want to pack airsoft in all together (and I want to enjoy airsoft once again)

I thank you for your interest in UKAPU and I hope to possibly see you at the AGM, whenever that may be!

 

[TacticalWaifu]

The meeting that has been previously announced here that is being held on the 22nd of this month is not an AGM, it is an emergency management meeting, which is being held to replace myself as chairman, as I'm resigning.

Once that emergency meeting has occurred, and a new chairperson elected, we will begin the process of organising, and notifying our members about an upcoming AGM.

Appreciate the update -- for those not in the know, you're David W., right?

How are you differentiating between an "emergency management meeting" and an EGM or (minimum biannual) management meeting -- the latter of which "members are encouraged to attend" (§ 6.1.5)?

I appreciate this seems to be a bit of a rush job, but do you have any idea when an AGM may be called?

I only ask because UKAPU haven't published any meeting agenda or minutes for 2022, and there doesn't appear to be anything listed for who was elected and when - which seems important, given current elected officers are the only ones allowed to vote at an MM?

Thanks,

~TW

 

[typefish]

Appreciate the update -- for those not in the know, you're David W., right?

Yes, that is correct.

How are you differentiating between an "emergency management meeting" and an EGM or (minimum biannual) management meeting -- the latter of which "members are encouraged to attend" (§ 6.1.5)?

I want to hand over the reins in an orderly manner, and the best way to do that is to gather members of our committee and elect a new chairperson ASAP.

From that point we would proceed onwards to regularising whatever the committee and wider membership decide to vote for at the AGM.

 

[TacticalWaifu]

I want to hand over the reins in an orderly manner, and the best way to do that is to gather members of our committee and elect a new chairperson ASAP.

From that point we would proceed onwards to regularising whatever the committee and wider membership decide to vote for at the AGM.

That still doesn't address whether this "emergency" management meeting is somehow different to management meetings as per the Constitution, other than being impromptu -- and therefore doesn't answer whether or not members can attend, which they're "encouraged" to do with MM's?

 

[SBoardley]

The saying “ flogging a dead horse “ comes to mind. 
I believe UKARA membership only works because people make money from it; it enables retailers to profit from sales, and it kinda ensures sites get a regular player base. In my experience, voluntary work always wanes off, as the realisation of the work involved becomes apparent. 

 

[TacticalWaifu]

UKARA works because it's one of the few legal defences to allow retailers (or current RIF owners) to sell you a RIF.

UKARA itself doesn't make any money AIUI, and actually incur their own costs for running the server with player registrations on, and ICO registration.

Unsure if they pay the "professional individual" who handles "programming" (read: site admin), or the admin representative -- but they don't make any money from the Association existing.

As for retailers, they can easily (and do) sell two-tone IFs, and/or accept non-UKARA defences when selling RIFs -- so plenty ways of making money from sales even if UKARA wasn't a thing.

 

[typefish]

Unsure if they pay the "professional individual" who handles "programming" (read: site admin), or the admin representative -- but they don't make any money from the Association existing.

Both the admin assistant and the website developer are, as I understand it are paid for their time from shared UKARA funds, which are directly contributed from the fee that retailers pay for access to the UKARA system.

I don't believe that money is abstracted from the running of UKARA for anything other than operating expenses and it ultimately is pooled, which is understandable considering how expensive it is to engage in legal proceedings or to provide scientific evidence that can be used when discussing and countering legislation.

In my experience, voluntary work always wanes off, as the realisation of the work involved becomes apparent. 

Whilst harsh, it's definitely true. The nature of volunteering is that it's done in one's spare time, or referring back to some of our past hijinks, pulling all nighters.

 

[Rogerborg]

being held to replace myself as chairman, as I'm resigning

I bet he's off to form the Airsoft Players' Union of the United Kingdom.

Thanks for cat-wrangling for so long, I can't imagine there will be a big queue of volunteers daft enough to be the someone in "Why someone oughta!"

 

[Jamsandwich]

I bet he's off to form the Airsoft Players' Union of the United Kingdom.



Thanks for cat-wrangling for so long, I can't imagine there will be a big queue of volunteers daft enough to be the someone in "Why someone oughta!"

 

[TacticalWaifu]

How are you differentiating between an "emergency management meeting" and an EGM or (minimum biannual) management meeting -- the latter of which "members are encouraged to attend" (§ 6.1.5)?

@typefish, you've been asked this twice and have failed to answer. Can you please clarify whether members can attend tomorrow?

 

[Skullchewer]

@typefish, you've been asked this twice and have failed to answer. Can you please clarify whether members can attend tomorrow?

I got on board with UKAPU, thinking it seemed like a great idea, and I still believe it is, in theory.

 

[Cannonfodder]

in theory

There's the problem, many things are a good idea in theory. 

 

[hunter511]

The cynical part of me suspects that this is a "the people that have been giving us money actually want us to do something" kinda meeting.

But then again 23yrs as an engineer have left me with an overwhelmingly cynical and pessimistic world view.

 

[Skullchewer]

There's the problem, many things are a good idea in theory. 

Hence the italics ?

I was beginning to wonder if ukapu was actually any use, and to be honest the replies in this thread are not instilling confidence. 

 

[Colin Allen]

Did the UKAPU meeting take place?  Are members going to be notified of the outcome at any point?

Do we need to leave our airsoft sites and march on wherever they are based?

 

[TacticalWaifu]

Did the UKAPU meeting take place?  Are members going to be notified of the outcome at any point?

Do we need to leave our airsoft sites and march on wherever they are based?

It certainly does seem to have planned to go to head, the then- (presumably now ex-)Chairman had said as much the day before, and was by his own admission (and words) "wholly unprofessional" in his responses, including taking the dictatorial decision to ban members from even attending, without ever consulting the rest of the committee.

No word on if it did take place in the end though, or what the result was -- never mind word of an AGM under the new Chairperson.

One can only hope they have a little more professionalism and communication than previously (although that's a low bar) -- otherwise they really have no right to be taking money from members and just being totally silent and seemingly dormant.

 

[Rogerborg]

professionalism

Yeah, no, it's a very silly hobby enjoyed by overgrown kids.  Even the "professionals" are generally just hobbyists trying to eke out a living at it.

At this point, I honestly think the best result is if the paintball daddies take us under their wing, as they've done the heavy lifting to almost, sort-of, get recognition as a sport.

Do we need to leave our airsoft sites and march on wherever they are based?

To peacefully and patriotically make our voices heard!