Gate Merf 3.2 not working correctly? F2000 semi-auto trigger not working

[RostokMcSpoons]

Oh damnit

I've just put in the new trigger unit, cut-off lever, bushings, adjusted the shims appropriately, and used my new nozzle.

My 'cunning plan' of super-short burst + lowered RoF still got me good single shot performance, in fact it's better than before as I didn't get any double-taps.  Then I reset to default semi/auto and got the bad news.  It now fires full auto all the time, rather than occasionally doing the semi-auto successfully.

I'm not ruling out a mistake on my part, but I double-checked the fitting and wiring before test firing.

I did notice the new trigger unit is differently sized to the original, so maybe I try the shuttle/dolly thing with the old trunnion and vice-versa to see if that changes anything.

Or swap the COL back, as that seemed to move only a small amount when engaged by the sector gear... so perhaps that's the issue.

Anyway, one good piece of news for me is that I managed to strip the gearbox, fit the new parts, and get it back together and firing in the space of an hour.   Thinking back to the first time I took a gearbox apart and then spent ~7 hours trying to put it back together, I have come quite a long way!

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Oh damnit

I've just put in the new trigger unit, cut-off lever, bushings, adjusted the shims appropriately, and used my new nozzle.

My 'cunning plan' of super-short burst + lowered RoF still got me good single shot performance, in fact it's better than before as I didn't get any double-taps.  Then I reset to default semi/auto and got the bad news.  It now fires full auto all the time, rather than occasionally doing the semi-auto successfully.

I'm not ruling out a mistake on my part, but I double-checked the fitting and wiring before test firing.

I did notice the new trigger unit is differently sized to the original, so maybe I try the shuttle/dolly thing with the old trunnion and vice-versa to see if that changes anything.

Or swap the COL back, as that seemed to move only a small amount when engaged by the sector gear... so perhaps that's the issue.

that's a pretty common issue with a non-matched col. part of the whole "compatible-ish" nature of airsoft. sometimes it's a case of try a bunch until you find one that works nice and why a well stocked box o' bits is handy.

did the original look particularly worn?

Anyway, one good piece of news for me is that I managed to strip the gearbox, fit the new parts, and get it back together and firing in the space of an hour.   Thinking back to the first time I took a gearbox apart and then spent ~7 hours trying to put it back together, I have come quite a long way!

yeah it's a steep curve but does get easier.

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

The original COL looks pristine. 
Now I have a Rocket COL + Rocket trigger unit not working properly together, guess we have to blame that on the gearbox shell... or the sector gear.
I will swap the original back in to see if works differently with the Rocket trigger unit.

Next thing will be a new gear set.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Aye try the original col with the new trigger parts, no wear on the trolley? Im thinking maybe if the ledge the col engages with has managed to wear/get damage.

Gears shouldnt be the issue, although maybe worth comparing the cam to the original gears to be sure, although i'd be surprised.

 

[Iceni]

I did mention before about reversing the return spring. Perhaps you didn't quite understand what I meant by that, so I've done you a diagram.

My aps aug prefers the second way with the loop at the top, the JG likes it the other way round. The only thing to watch out for is the loop at the other end might look like it's close to the edge, But hopefully your shells are close enough that it can't jump off.

It might be worth just giving it a try before you put more money into it.

 

View attachment 85182

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

Well blimey, I've only just read this thread, but earlier I stripped it all down and put in the old COL (it looks absolutely identical to the new part) and actually did try putting the spring in both ways!   Maybe I unconsciously absorbed your suggestion from previous posts, or maybe I forgot how it's supposed to go in ?

Anyway, now I've got it back together the nozzle movement and the trigger actuation actually feels a little smoother than before.   Maybe something else wasn't quite right, or maybe the spring orientation really does make a difference... I can't tell.

Unfortunately my wife decided to go to sleep early so I can't test fire it.  Will do that first thing tomorrow! 

 

[Iceni]

Anyway, now I've got it back together the nozzle movement and the trigger actuation actually feels a little smoother than before.   Maybe something else wasn't quite right. It maybe the spring orientation does make a difference 

Yeah give it a go and see where you end up with it. I know on my APS I built it backwards and it was refusing to reset,  It would break, but then wouldn't shoot again unless you mashed the trigger a little. I'd have to strip the guns to check, but I wouldn't be surprised if the springs in both guns were bent differently.

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

It didn't work, still the same as the previous test.

Am I going to have to buy some bigger hammers at this point?

View attachment 85196

Or perhaps do some sort of shimming of the underside of the trolley, so the COL moves it more when it hits?

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

Pics for your delectation...
View attachment 85197

View attachment 85198

View attachment 85199

View attachment 85200

Apologies for the cat hairs making an appearance, they're everywhere thanks to The Beast

View attachment 85201

Edit:  Gate got back to me again. They're suggesting I glue something on to the COL to make it raise the trolley higher.

View attachment 85203

That's a high-wear location, do you you think a piece of metal shim super-glued there will hold?  I suppose there's only one way to find out...

 

[Adolf Hamster]

I did mention before about reversing the return spring. Perhaps you didn't quite understand what I meant by that, so I've done you a diagram.

didn't think about that one.

i normally do a mid-way of having option 1 with the loop going under the second peg on the trolley or at least whichever method has the spring sitting straightest.

Pics for your delectation...

your right that the COL doesn't look significantly worn, the gears definitely not worn either.

not really seeing anything jumping out to eye, perhaps the col edge could be closer to the sector gear but again if that's the original col and gears then that's where it's supposed to be, but then we are talking airsoft levels of precision.

you could try pulling the trigger pack, have just the sector and col in and rotate it to see what kind of range of motion it has.

Edit:  Gate got back to me again. They're suggesting I glue something on to the COL to make it raise the trolley higher.

yeah that's the gap i'm thinking about.

if it were me i'd rather be checking different col's until finding one that was naturally a bit higher in that regard, main downside is getting access to a bunch of different col's.

when i did it would go to the local shop, tech there didn't mind me having a rummage through and chucking him a couple of £ for whatever random part i'd found to do the job.

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

View attachment 85205

I've snipped a bit of scalpel blade and superglued it on.  It's flat rather than curved, and lord knows if it'll survive even a second of being hit by the cam whizzing around at ~18 rotations per second, but it's survived me filing the edges of it (and the surgical steel is pretty tough to file - it'll be the glue failing if anything)
I'll fit it at lunchtime and see what happens.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

even if it only works for a few shots it'll at least confirm the theory.

 

[ak2m4]

I've got loads of Rocket V3 COL levers that I never sold as the selector arm was a little bent, weird angle.  They're different.  You're welcome to one if I can dig them out when I'm back home later

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

Couldn't wait for lunchtime... threw it in there.  Trigger felt a little rough compared to last time, so wasn't sure if I'd messed something up, but....

It.... seems... to... be... working!

Yes I'd love an alternative COL @ak2m4 because I have no idea how long my bodge superior quality superglue engineering will last.
But the concept is definitely proven!  More material for the sector gear to cam against = bingo, bango, and indeed bongo!*

*(unless whatever happened to the trigger to make it feel rough has actually helped)

 

[Iceni]

The other less invasive and perhaps more long term solution would be to take a little metal off the AUG trigger sear. So the COL doesn't need to lift as high in the first place.

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

I've actually got my gun put back together for the first in a few days... because it's actually worth testing.
And guess what?   It won't fire on semi auto when the gearbox is in the gun ?
I'm guessing the trigger has to travel further back to make contacts within the new trigger assembly than it did before.

This feels odd / wrong because it was always a small gap between semi and full auto, and the trigger mechanism (with the long operating rod system) barely looks like a piece of precision engineering!
And now it must be tiny.

I've ensured the gearbox is seated fully forward within the stock, and properly held in by the screwed-in back-plate.  (I've even tried a bit of manual pressure too, to encourage it forwards the extra half millimetre or so - but that didn't do it)

So I'm asking:

• is there anyway to adjust that trigger operating rod's reach in semi-auto?
  
• Do I need to open up the gearbox for the 57 millionth time and adjust the contacts inside?
  
• Or should I physically shim the trigger so the trigger rod makes contact with it more easily? 
  

 

[Iceni]

If you still have some movement on the Auto contacts then shimming the linkage would be a suitable fix.

If the Auto contacts are already as far back as you want then you are going to have to rebend the Front contacts to engage sooner with the dolly. Or build up the dolly with solder to make it longer. If your careful you might be able to take the contacts out without opening the gearbox. Since they just slide in the front and side of the unit from the outside.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

The other less invasive and perhaps more long term solution would be to take a little metal off the AUG trigger sear. So the COL doesn't need to lift as high in the first place.

good idea that, will have to remember it.

I've actually got my gun put back together for the first in a few days... because it's actually worth testing.
And guess what?   It won't fire on semi auto when the gearbox is in the gun ?
I'm guessing the trigger has to travel further back to make contacts within the new trigger assembly than it did before.

ahh the next familiar problem.

getting it so that the semi-blocker is enough distance to set off semi auto without over-travelling and tripping the auto.

iirc i adjusted the rod at the trigger end- filed out the slot on the trigger and packed the rod (that was for adjusting the rod forward for less distance)

i swear if your next buy is an m4 with the worst possible wiring job whilst still being technically functional imma call shenanigans

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

If you still have some movement on the Auto contacts then shimming the linkage would be a suitable fix.

If the Auto contacts are already as far back as you want then you are going to have to rebend the Front contacts to engage sooner with the dolly. Or build up the dolly with solder to make it longer. If your careful you might be able to take the contacts out without opening the gearbox. Since they just slide in the front and side of the unit from the outside.

Cheers, 

I've been looking at it, I've been able to flatten the auto contacts back a millimetre or two, so I think I've got some margin to play with again.
Stuck a bit of blu-tack on the trigger, covered in foil to test-shim it, it works

Now superglued a washer on the trigger...

AND IT WORKS... PROPERLY

Safety, Single shot, Short-pull on Full Auto gives one shot, all the way back ... rat-a-tat-a-tat 

Lovely

Thank you SO MUCH guys for sticking with me, the fact you haven't pissed off in a cloud of dust really encouraged me to keep going, and the toys didn't have to come out the pram at all 

 

(Edit:  Oh crap, the one thing I haven't done before putting every last nut and bolt back in place... check the beast actually feeds properly:  I put in that new nozzle (Shiny! Shiny!) and it's probably a different spec to the original.   It might not actually work!   Something for tomorrow's test shoot in the garden.  For the moment I'm resting on my laurels and cracking open a beer or two!)

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

Quick test fire this morning...
The F2000's supplied mag is feeding great, but the mag that came with my DE M906C is only feeding when I push it up into the mag well and hold it there (it's clicked in place but there's still further movement available). 

Is there a way of adjusting the location of the mag within the gun? 

Is it just a case of packing the mag well to encourage it to stay in a good place, or is there anything I can do to the mag catch?

FPS is down, I wound the spring guide's Quick FPS change screw all the way out, I'll wind it all the way in, see how that does, as 200fps with 0.28's (with some hop) is, I think, a long way from the 345-355fps (with 0.20s, hopped) that I was getting.  Maybe it doesn't like the new nozzle, even though it seemed to fit the cylinder head very nicely.  Maybe it's too short and not sealing against the bucking properly?