Sniper rang? Really!

[Mr Dad]

Hi all. Sorry if this is somewhere else. 
 

So sniper, I have a well mb-01 that’s been fully upgraded using Airsoft pro parts. Nothing inside is stock. What sort of range should I be expecting? I’m using 0.4 bb’s and a m170 spring. FPS is 200fps at best and about 0.8j’s. The range I feel I can hit well is about 40 meters. This seems incorrect to me but if someone can shine some light that’ll be great. 
 

Mr dad. 

 

[Asomodai]

That FPS is far too low, especially considered the barrel length and the whacking great spring you have in there. Do you have an air leak? Cock the bolt , stick your thumb over the end of the inner barrel and fire, does the air stay in the cylinder or does it leak out? 

You should be hitting out 100 metres with that setup. (Though that's with an M170 which if working properly will be too hot for any UK field)

You should be getting about 80 metres with an M145/M150 which would be UK legal.

 

[Mr Dad]

That’s what I was thinking. 

So 80 meters is what I should be getting? 
 

Thank you for the reply. Best go and double check it all. If I’m still having issues I’ll be back. 

 

[Asomodai]

That’s what I was thinking. 

So 80 meters is what I should be getting? 
 

Thank you for the reply. Best go and double check it all. If I’m still having issues I’ll be back. 

80 Metres is about typical for a fully upgraded sniper rifle. Unless you are a god tier builder. 

 

[Steveocee]

In the UK we are quite hindered by a relatively low sniper limit. The general 2.32J marker is good for about up to 80 real metres, much past that is going to be luck and inconsistence. When you get into Europe and they start running 3 and 4 J limits, thst's when your 100+ ranges start coming out.

An M170 spring is seriously big though and you "should" be hitting over 600fps with a 0.2g bb. You have either a very poorly fitting piston or a humongous are leak.

 

[Mr Dad]

In the UK we are quite hindered by a relatively low sniper limit. The general 2.32J marker is good for about up to 80 real metres, much past that is going to be luck and inconsistence. When you get into Europe and they start running 3 and 4 J limits, thst's when your 100+ ranges start coming out.

An M170 spring is seriously big though and you "should" be hitting over 600fps with a 0.2g bb. You have either a very poorly fitting piston or a humongous are leak.

This explains why most YouTube vids I see show massive ranges. 

 

[Rogerborg]

This explains why most YouTube vids I see show massive ranges. 

They show massive ranges because sniper YouTubers tend to be selling a story rather than documenting reality. That's why they have no problem with adding fake hit makers and producing "OMG CHEETAR" clickbait.

That said, your Well is definitely underperforming, and I'd agree that the air seal is stuffed.  You don't want to be running it on an M170, it'll be doing your sears no favours.

 

[Mr Dad]

That said, your Well is definitely underperforming, and I'd agree that the air seal is stuffed.  You don't want to be running it on an M170, it'll be doing your sears no favours.

Noob question as I’ve not been doing this long. What is a sears on a sniper? 

Never mind. Just found out 

 

[Mr Dad]

Never mind. Just found out 

ok so took it all apart and checked it all and good air seal all the way to the nozzle. So the only thing it could be is the bucking. I have a maple leaf light green ( can’t for the life of me remember the degrees of it ) so I’ll get a new bucking and try it again in a few days. 

 

[Rogerborg]

maple leaf light green ( can’t for the life of me remember the degrees of it )

Oh!  That's a 50 degree, it would be fine for a GBB pistol, but I'd suggest a 70 or 75 for a sniper rifle.

 

[Mr Dad]

Hi all. 
 

Thank you for all your help. So here’s what happened, the nozzle was damaged, don’t know how so it wasn’t sitting on the bucking right. So new nozzle, new harder bucking and a re-fit and double check and now I’m getting my 270fps and and 1.2j (ish) also changed to a m140 spring so it’s a lot easier to pull. 
 

 

[Rogerborg]

Thanks for the update.  Was the nozzle brass?  The mind boggles.

That's still low though, you should be seeing more like 1.9J out of that spring.

I'd have another look at the air seal.

 

[Samurai]

If you are using heavy BBs (which you should), use a hardness 50-60 houpup rubber. They are the best for about 330-350 fps which you should aim for. If you use light bbs (you shouldn't), so the fps is around 450, then use a hard rubber. So it is not x fps measured with 0.20g, but the actual fps you measure with the weight you use.

 

[Impulse]

Yeah, I'd look at the air seal too, as well as making sure the piston is lubed up to make sure it's not suffering too much friction inside the cylinder (allow me to place your mind firmly in the gutter with that imagery). m140 giving 1.2J is horrific! I got 2.4J on a m130 in my old build because my air seal was "too good". Air seal is king as it will generally give you much better consistency and longevity, as you can get away with using lighter springs which put less strain on the sears.

If you're going for a 1.1J no MED build, which I advocate because they're really fun, you want to be using a muuuuuuch lighter spring for a muuuuuuuch easier bolt pull; also a 60 degree rubber makes sense for that level of power. I changed out my spring build for a 1.1J build and I'm using a m90, so my sears are going to last a while! However, if you're going for 2.3J like most people, you will want a 70 or 80 degree rubber and use the heaviest BBs possible.

 

[Rogerborg]

I'm starting to get intrigued by these 1.1J builds.  What BB weight are you using with that?

Do I need an AAC T11 Shorty in my life for CQB sniping?

View attachment 80806

 

[Samurai]

you will want a 70 or 80 degree rubber and use the heaviest BBs possible

Bucking hardness is for the fps measured with the weight used. Not with what the fps would be with 0.20g.

 

[Rogerborg]

Bucking hardness is for the fps measured with the weight used. Not with what the fps would be with 0.20g.

Hmm, do we have research on that?  I'd assumed that bucking stiffness would be about the amount of puff coming out of the nozzle rather than the velocity imparted to the BB, as the BB is starting from rest as it goes through the hop.  As I see it, softer is always better for imparting sufficient spin with the least amount of pressure, and you only go stiffer if you have to stop the whole bucking deforming and leaking air.

That's based on thought experiment, not real experiment though, I'd be fascinated to see some side-by-side testing.

 

[AirSniper]

Hi all. Sorry if this is somewhere else. 
 

So sniper, I have a well mb-01 that’s been fully upgraded using Airsoft pro parts. Nothing inside is stock. What sort of range should I be expecting? I’m using 0.4 bb’s and a m170 spring. FPS is 200fps at best and about 0.8j’s. The range I feel I can hit well is about 40 meters. This seems incorrect to me but if someone can shine some light that’ll be great. 
 

Mr dad. 

You can easily look up ballistics calculators for guns (real steel) and use them to determine the range. I had a great one years ago, no idea what happened to the site but it had a graphing suit with it that showed the trajectory and the distance you should get with the parameters you used, things like BB Pellet weight, Joules, inclination, and out pops the range you are getting.
If you are ready for it and can stomach a challenge, here you go : https://shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php

and ... https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmdist-5.1.cgi

 

[Samurai]

ballistics calculators

Airsoft BBs have backspin that greatly affect the trajectory.

Most of them at least. There's an indoor sniping thing in Japan where they have very precisely built rifles with no hopup to shoot coin sized targets in close, 10-20m ranges. No hopup because that makes them less accurate.

Hmm, do we have research on that?

Only my empirical evidence, but I will try to look it up, because I've read it somewhere first. And it changed my life.

 

[Rogerborg]

Only my empirical evidence, but I will try to look it up, because I've read it somewhere first. And it changed my life.

I'm minded to believe it, because I threw a 50 degree Maple Leaf into a 1.8J+ DMR and it was just fine (I later found a 60 degree and switched to that, with no noticeable difference, I just wanted to free up the 50 for an 1.1J AEG).  I suspect 70+ buckings are more about willy waggling over your real ultimate power in areas where they run snipers at 3J+.