Stripping two-tone paint okay?

[Haru]

Just want to confirm, whether it is okay for me to strip paint off and go to a site without a UKARA

 

[Guest]

You can't strip off the paint, as that counts as manufacturing a RIF, and you're not allowed

 

[Jedi_Master]

Two-tone guns are an Imitation Firearm (IF) and S.36 of the VCRA covers the Manufacture, import and sale of realistic imitation firearms (RIF)

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if—



(a) he manufactures a realistic imitation firearm;



(b) he modifies an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm;

[You would need a valid defence to manufacture (i.e. paint) a RIF from what was originally an IF]

For the purpose of skirmishing you can temporarily cover the two-tone paint, i.e. using camouflage tape.  Putting camouflaged tape over a two-tone at a skirmish is permissible due to being a temporary modification purely for the game.  After the skirmish the tape is removed.  Sniper tape is a cheap way to cover the gun for a game day and is then easy to remove afterwards.  

Are you over 18 years old?  You do not need to be on the UKARA database to play airsoft, it just makes it easier for a retailer/seller to check whether it is legal to sell you a RIF.

 

[Haru]

Aw that sucks, I am over 18, hypothetically if I were to strip the paint and no one finds out. I assume you do not need a license to own an RIF only when it comes to sales, I would be in the clear.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Before someone else says it - there is no airsoft license (UKARA or otherwise). 

 

[Tommikka]

Aw that sucks, I am over 18, hypothetically if I were to strip the paint and no one finds out. I assume you do not need a license to own an RIF only when it comes to sales, I would be in the clear.

'If no one finds out' also works for bank robberies, but still isn't legal 

Under VCRA removing two tone paint falls under 1b of the extract above .... removing the two tone paint of an IF which renders it a RIF.  

You don't need to be on the UKARA register to be VCRA compliant, but do need to be a skirmiser 

You can possess a RIF and go and play, it's an offence for someone to sell you a RIF without you having one of the VCRA defenses which makes the seller liable to a fine, it's an offence for you to modify / remove two tone paint without a VCRA defence

The easiest way is to play with a two tone or a rental, get your card stamped and then get registered under the UKARA

 

[Haru]

'If no one finds out' also works for bank robberies, but still isn't legal 

Under VCRA removing two tone paint falls under 1b of the extract above .... removing the two tone paint of an IF which renders it a RIF.  

You don't need to be on the UKARA register to be VCRA compliant, but do need to be a skirmiser 

You can possess a RIF and go and play, it's an offence for someone to sell you a RIF without you having one of the VCRA defenses which makes the seller liable to a fine, it's an offence for you to modify / remove two tone paint without a VCRA defence

The easiest way is to play with a two tone or a rental, get your card stamped and then get registered under the UKARA

eh, i guess i could wait til i have my defense then strip the paint. its only 2 months anyway

 

[Jedi_Master]

eh, i guess i could wait til i have my defense then strip the paint. its only 2 months anyway

Now that is a good response.  Upholding the spirit of the VCRA, doing the right thing, and playing the (airsoft) game.

 

[Rogerborg]

So, let's suppose that I've been stopped in public by a warranted constable, and they've discovered that I'm in possession of a RIF.

Before we even get on to the nuances of VCRA, I've got to deal with the Firearms Act 1968, S19 offence: "without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place an imitation firearm".

This is where I make a rapid grab for my printed booking receipt, confirmation email, or at the very least a map and site information for a walk-on site to demonstrate that I'm on my way to an organised skirmish.

Having persuaded Dibble that I'm a fine upstanding citizen who isn't falling foul of the Firearms Act, I've also demonstrated my defence to any VCRA charge of modifying an IF into a RIF.

Any flaws in that scenario?

 

[AndyGif290368]

what were you doing to get stopped and searched in this scenario?

if the RIF is correctly stowed in an appropriate container, then why would there be a problem with you carrying it?   Guesing your not carrying it loosely wrapped in a bin bag or tesco's carriers?

Making a sudden/rapid grab for anything would probably see you chewing pavement in short order.

 

[Rogerborg]

what were you doing to get stopped and searched in this scenario?

Suppositioning with intent.  Sorry, I've clarified that I was speculating on the scenario which might (indirectly) lead to a VCRA question about modification.

if the RIF is correctly stowed in an appropriate container, then why would there be a problem with you carrying it?

Precisely my point.  It's very unlikely to be an issue at all.

But if it becomes an issue, then our airsoft defence to possessing the RIF in public (which we do need and should have to hand) also serves as a defence to modifying the RIF.

For an example of how tolerant the police can be, see this cosplayer who was stopped by armed police while wandering merrily through Birmingham airport wearing tacticool and openly carrying a RIF.  Note the conclusion: words of advice, sent on his way.  Just have your destination details to hand and don't fail the Attitude Test.

I've just bought some two-tones, but the risk from the act of de-toytowning them prior to getting a UKARA number doesn't bother me in the slightest since my purpose is to use them for airsoft skirmishing, and that's the only circumstances in which they'll be transported in public.

 

[Tommikka]

Not being a VCRA offence to possess, being 'caught' in possession in a public place could be for both an IF and a RIF

In the circumstances of being searched for some reason the specific circumstances and the attitude test are a major factor

Fully a VCRA compliant RIF held by a skirmisher, but acting in an inappropriate way can be an offence in itself.  Sometimes a bit of reeducation can be the solution

Im aware of cases that have taken place with paintball and BB guns which when reported in the media have ended with 'police attended and advised the individual' and 'no offence was committed' - some of which despite the 'no offence' commuted have been an offence of some part of the various acts  such as having it fully assembled, in full view of the public etc but discretion was used.

Being able to 'prove' the reason it is being transported could still be considered valid as under the VCRA there are just the selection of defences, in which skirmishing at a site with public liability insurance etc.  So if accepted then it's fair enough 

The industry and sellers etc don't know a buyers intent, hence the UKARA arrangements which make it quite reasonable for them to believe purchase is intended for the valid use

 

[Rogerborg]

Coincidentally, I was talking to a warranted constable about this today.  I admitted the offence of de-two-toning, noted the Firearms Act issue, and that the defence to one was the defence to the other.

He didn't make an issue of it, told me that he'd never actually heard of airsoft gun coming to the attention of the police... and then told me that he was a copper.  Silver Fox Airsoft, great chap.  :lol:

 

[Tommikka]

Coincidentally, I was talking to a warranted constable about this today.  I admitted the offence of de-two-toning, noted the Firearms Act issue, and that the defence to one was the defence to the other.

He didn't make an issue of it, told me that he'd never actually heard of airsoft gun coming to the attention of the police... and then told me that he was a copper.  Silver Fox Airsoft, great chap.  :lol:

I wouldn't always rely on an individual warranted constable.

Last year a friend of mines father passed away, neighbours were worried and called in the police.  They broke in to find him dead in his arm chair.

He was a film maker and general purpose bloke adventurer.

One of his blank firing cowboy six guns was hung up in a leather holster from his bookcase and the constable carried it away held at arms length to the police car and took it to the station for analysis

He also found 'live ammunition'

There was a diving knife complete with dried blood also hung from the book case, another leather cowboy holster with the other six gun missing.  (It was in a drawer)

The police also failed to notice an air rifle behind the kitchen door, another under the bed, an assortment of air pistols in cupboards and drawers throughout.

When they called the next of kin and when she arrived they failed to mention the revolver and live ammunition that had been taken away, it was only when neighbours told her about the pistol being taken away.

So they had taken a pistol for further investigation but failed to notice the other weapons in full view nor look for any others that may be hidden away.  

So she may have then been worried about  the missing weapon, or on the other hand if it turned out to be suspicious / illegal they left her in control of access to any other hidden illegal weapons.

She had to later enquire to confirm that it was taken by the police, wait & wait for

any action.  At a later date the constable remarked about the 'live ammunition' that had been found and removed.  

(More than a week later and he was unable to know if they were blanks to go with the blank firing pistols or genuine live rounds). Not very good at investigating a

potential firearms offence, and if they were full real live rounds then where were

the guns to go with them?

The pistol and ammunition sat around in a constables desk 'awaiting inspection' until eventually she was allowed to collect the pistol, along with her stating she didn't want the ammunition and leaving it from destruction

Not every bobby knows all about the law, and worryingly not every bobby knows what to do when weapons are found and who to notify.  But we can be fairly sure that bobby now knows who he should call

following the complaints and questions she asked at the station

 

[Tommikka]

Air guns & BB guns:

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/police-warning-over-air-guns-11638029.amp

 

[EDcase]

It still confuses me how its possible to buy a RIF Co2 powered pistol which fires metal BB's or even more dangerous pellets but need to be registered to buy one that fires plastic BB's ?!?!?!

 

[Rogerborg]

I wouldn't always rely on an individual warranted constable.

I most certainly don't, I mention it just as an anecdote.  I had no idea that Silver Fox was a copper, but in retrospect, big, calm, pragmatic blokes have always formed the backbone of the police force.

Not every bobby knows all about the law

My point exactly. Every Bobby knows only a tiny proportion of the law.  Even lawyers have to specialise.  The politicians that write it certainly have little conception of the size of the smelly heap that they're industriously piling ever-higher  There may be a 200 year old Mandarin in the dusty bowels of Whitehall who has a fair idea.

What the police know is the crib-notes version.  Oi, that's a shooter, what are you up to?  Right, you're on your way to an organised, insured airsoft site, are you?  Oh, a booking receipt / map to the site.  Well, careful now.

If anyone in possession of a RIF ever passes the Firearms Act S19 test, but falls foul of VCRA S36 then I'll eat my helmet.

 

[Tommikka]

It still confuses me how its possible to buy a RIF Co2 powered pistol which fires metal BB's or even more dangerous pellets but need to be registered to buy one that fires plastic BB's ?!?!?!

Because it's not an imitation and therefore neither RIF nor IF.

It would be an air gun which falls within firearms legislation, and if below the appropriate power does not require licence (but does in Scotland)

There are those who would like them to be licenced across the UK

 

[Rogerborg]

They'd better get Nerf guns while they're at it. Y U NO EYEPRO THO? B)

 

[Tommikka]

They'd better get Nerf guns while they're at it. Y U NO EYEPRO THO? B)

Eyepro - exactly

Ive not read much, just seen as linked and heard on the radio

I take it that doctors have written a paper on eye injuries from Nerf and the papers have run away with it.

The answer is for parents to be responsible and ensure their kids are capable of following the rules and wearing the eye protection as advised on every Nerf guns box

If your kids won't then don't give them Nerf guns