Starting up again

[Thom2022]

Hey guys. New to the forum.

Used to play way back in the day (nearly 10 years ago) and have recently thought about taking the hobby back up. 

I always used to operate as a sniper and that's the role i want to drop back into. 

My issue is where to begin. 

My budget is pretty limited at around £400 but that needs to include 2 guns.

I'm looking at an L96 as Ive always loved the look of them but am a little hazy on which to go for as everything has changed so much 

I'm torn between 2. The well MB08A and the marui L96. 

The MB08 ive planned as a build. The base gun I've seen for around £120 and then the airsoft pro hop up unit, AEG barrel, metal trigger box, upgraded spring , guide and piston etc looks to be around another 130 or so. I've read good things about this gun with these upgrades.

I know marui to be a quality brand and their L96 comes in at around £240 bone stock. How would the marui compare to an upgraded Well? 

Sorry for the worst first post 

Thanks in advance

Thom

 

[Druid799]

I’d say a well up-graded (no pun intended) clone’er would perform as well if not better than a stock TM , simply due to the dramatic FPS diffrence if any thing . Before any one starts on about hop V FPS ? I’m 100% in the hop beats FPS every time camp BUT the huge difference in FPS between a stock TM and a properly up-graded clone would i believe cancel out the superior TM hop’s effect on a side by side comparison .

 

[Prisce]

Have you considered looking for a second hand preupgraded sniper on the forums? Or the other gun your after too? 

You can get some bargains on here.

 

[Thom2022]

For the other gun I'm thinking a compact SMG of some variety. That way i would have a CQB weapon for when a sniper wouldn't be usable. I understand this would leave me quite heavily laden if I were to go out with both but it also gives me versatility. 

The thought of pre owned has crossed my mind but I'm a little put off by my previous pre owned purchases. Ideally I like to buy new in situations like this because then all work is done by myself, so if something goes wrong there's no 'it was fine when I sent it' arguments, it's just flat out my fault. Also I enjoy the upgrade aspect and it's a nice sense of achievement when you build something that works well. 

As for hop vs FPS, I was never fond of huge amounts of hop up. I understand it increases range quite a bit but i prefer a straighter trajectory and then just hold under or over as necessary. Its what I still do with air rifles so it shouldn't take to long to get used to with an airsoft rifle (I hope). 

If anyone has any suggestions please throw then out. 

Main criteria for the sniper are 

450-500 fps (stock or upgraded)

Sturdy and reliable

£250 ish ideally £280 absolute maximum. 

Thanks

Thom

 

[Davegolf]

Hi!

By hop vs FPS they mean hop quality is far superior to increased FPS.

I would buy a std TM L96, they inevitably wear and wobble with age so a nice tight new one without fudged screws is nice.

Slowly or as fast as your budget allows collect the reqd upgrade parts, and you really do not need many honestly!

In the meantime I think the best sniper secondary, that can also be used as a primary is a TM P90.

Lipo, MosFet, EG barrel, M95 spring, R Hop. That will see you shooting 60M, is dead quiet, and 1 midcap will hold over 150 rounds, plus there's no snaggy edges, lightweight and it's tiny.

 

[Thom2022]

Ah that makes sense haha. I think I misread and therefore misunderstood. TM L96 it is then. Although before I go ahead and get it. Would anyone else have any other recommendations? I do feel I'm biasing myself slightly for aesthetic reasons but I am open to suggestions. 

 

[Wo1f]

As said, while you can't discount a 200? fps increase over a standard tm sniper, Hop-up quality is key to range and accuracy. For example.. A TM MK23 with a couple of hop mods will throw a .43bb out to 70m, yet mine at least only chrono's at 310fps with a .20

A Tm l96 is a good shout. They are good quality and a vast amount of upgrade parts, which is important. the only TM sniper i would avoid is the m40 because i believe it has a tiny cylinder, which makes it very difficult to shoot 500 fps and throw a heavy bb a long way. A sniper more than anything is built and refined instead of bought, compared to an AEG for example. The only out of the box "High performance" sniper rifle is the Silverback SRS, but you're looking at £450?

For an SMG you've loads of options. I don't have an AEG P90, but I've got a gas one and its very nice to use. Really ergonomic and comfortable to use and when shouldered its tiny, to the point of being far more practical than a pistol in tight spaces. Cyma MP5's are supposed to be quite nice and reliable for the money if thats' your thing.

 

[Thom2022]

Ok so I'm definitely going to go down the TM route. I'm just a little confused now. 

The L96 I described as using the VSR bolt system. So does that mean I need to.buy VSR-10 upgrades as I don't see many listed as L96 

 

[M_P]

Ok so I'm definitely going to go down the TM route. I'm just a little confused now. 

The L96 I described as using the VSR bolt system. So does that mean I need to.buy VSR-10 upgrades as I don't see many listed as L96 

No the TM l96 has it's own parts- the inner barrel and bucking are VSR compatible but the cylinder, components and trigger box aren't the same

PDI make a fair few parts for them, you may have to order from outside the UK though 

 

[Davegolf]

The TM VSR is the best sniper platform, the L96 is nice aesthetically and shares a lot of parts, but does have a couple of finicky things about it. As @M_P said.

If you want straight forward performance the VSR is the 'go to' model.

You don't need to break the bank;

Airsoft Pro trigger, piston, hop arm.

PDI W hold, standard barrel.

Trimmed M180 spring.

If you put in the time on the install and setup that is accurate to a very long range on 0.4s

 

[Thom2022]

Thanks for that info. Will probably just go down the route of the VSR. on a side note anyone have any experience of the G&G rifles? Z1 has them at a tempting price and their blurb seems to suggest they are pretty powerful and reliable out of the box. 

And finally. Because I'm that sort of person (unfortunately) I just want to play devils advocate so to speak.

Say I buy the VSR and perform the above listed upgrades and then I buy the Well and upgrade piston, cylinder, spring, trigger, barrel and hop up unit.

Paper wrap both barrels and stuff both stocks. Would their be a notable difference? Other than the 'feel' of the gun? 

I'm going for a TM but I'm just covering all bases.

Also can you explain PDI W hold? Not a term I've heard before.

Thanks 

 

[Davegolf]

TBH at the end of the day if you put enough effort into any gun, it will perform equal to another.

The question is how much time and money do you like to use to achieve the same result as X gun?

For example most recently I decided to Mancraft a VFC 417, complete time hog to get nozzle alignment etc but it works as well as any other now. However I could have just bought a drop in kit like an polarstar F2 etc!

There are a multitude of nice guns I love but are such a pain to mod for actual performance because of manufactured design flaws.

That is why most upgraded guns are; Hi CAPA - M4 - VSR etc

Of all things really with the TM your buying a solid platform to build of, everything is perfectly aligned, all the upgrades are easy drop in.

The only rubbish part is the trigger but that gets swapped out anyways.

The PDI W hold is a GBB bucking.

 

[Thom2022]

Ah ok that makes sense and thanks for a friendly and concise reply even though I am being a pest. My issue is I'm a qualified engineer and I always over think everything and the way I was looking at it was why but a gun that's £100 more if I'm only going to tear out and replace what makes it worth the extra £100. I wish the airsoft world worked like the flashlight world where you can just buy a good quality host and fill it with what you want rather than buy a good complete gun and remove most of that which makes it good.

Is there anything else worth doing to the VSR Other than the above mentioned

Thanks everyone. 

 

[Davegolf]

Hah youre the same as me, my GF is always saying 'cant you just leave it as it is' and 'does it really need that doing', that applies to everything I/we purchase - cars, MTBs, house, whatever!

Im also an engineer funnily enough, I think its in our nature to question and improve things!

Im sure others will have tons of recommendations to a VSR, but that setup we have built and used till its knackered 3 times now and it always does the business.

The only upgrade thereon is to R hop or HPA it personally but that's a whole other load of kit to boot.

Please please do look at a P90, they are so underrated!

 

[Thom2022]

Now HPA I understand but R Hop I don't know what is. I can imagine HPA would be brilliant but I can't think how you would incorporate it into an airsoft rifle, at least not as a retrofit. 

When I've been looking at what upgrades to do etc I've noticed a lot of mention of sealing the hop up chamber, is this just mainly for low end guns or do all benefit? 

 

[Davegolf]

Hop / bucking sealing is done on all levels, ive even superglued buckings on before ha!

Its not always necessary, that's what air seal testing is for.

You can get drop in kits for the VSR if you wanted to go HPA, save buying upgrade cylinder etc, makes the bolt pull lighter, increase range to effective 90-100M with 0..45g BBs

http://shop-mancraft.com/en/conversion-kits-for-spring-rifles/39-konwersja-sdik.html

All you need then is a 13Ci bottle and a reg, or even a little C02 kit

http://shop-mancraft.com/en/12-co2-adaptors

Other air supply parts / brands are available but the price, performance and simplicity of the SDiK is hard to beat.

Happy to spend your money.... er help

 

[Thom2022]

Ah that's pretty cool. Don't like the fact it needs an external tank though. That line just looks like it's waiting to get snagged. Would be interesting to see if you could use a small compressed air bottle and incorporate it into the stock some how. That may be one for a later date haha. 

Back to sealing the hop up chamber. The airsoft pro states you need an AEG barrel with it. Is that any AEG barrel? And why do they require an AEG barrel? Is it a length issue or design requirement? Sorry to keep bombarding with questions. I'm just wanting to start making a list or what I want/need so I can work out cost and then prioritise upgrades  

 

[Davegolf]

Hi, the second link was for C02 inside the stock, no hose

You do not need a whole new hop chamber, just the hop arm: http://www.patrolbase.co.uk/airsoft/airsoftpro-tm-vsr-cnc-hop-up-lever-red.htm#.WxgsUfZFxdg

 

[Thom2022]

Right then. Been having a look and I have enough to buy the main rifle, a spring, hop arm and maybe a trigger assembly. Few things confuse me though. 

Is there any significant difference between all the variations of the VSR10? And is a 90 degree trigger worth it or will an upgraded 45 work fine for the time being. 

These probably seem noobish questions buy my last sniper (12 years ago) was a gas tanaka m24 so springers are new to me 

 

[Duff]

Ah that's pretty cool. Don't like the fact it needs an external tank though. That line just looks like it's waiting to get snagged. Would be interesting to see if you could use a small compressed air bottle and incorporate it into the stock some how. That may be one for a later date haha. 

Back to sealing the hop up chamber. The airsoft pro states you need an AEG barrel with it. Is that any AEG barrel? And why do they require an AEG barrel? Is it a length issue or design requirement? Sorry to keep bombarding with questions. I'm just wanting to start making a list or what I want/need so I can work out cost and then prioritise upgrades  

Most people get HPA because they want the tank on their molle like some form of loser status symbol of something... I'm with you I wouldn't want to wake a tumble onto one of those.