Smg help with buying

[Sheepy]

Hey guys looking at getting a smg type RIF but can’t decide I’m looking to spend around 200 quid and the only thing ruled out for me are the honey badger looking weapons any help with deciding would be much appreciated 

 

[Rogerborg]

We could do the whole thing where we suggest our favourite guns, and you say "Well, yeaaaaah, buuuuut..."

Or you could just straight up tell us what you actually want, and we could suggest reasons to get something else.

 

[Sheepy]

Literally have no preference as long as it’s not a honey badger and reliable+ within In budget I don’t care. P90,mp5, mp7 Scorpion cz , aeg, gbbr honestly no preferences so I’d welcome your guys favourite guns ??

 

[Prisce]

Hmmm, never seen a “good” P90 out of the box, I know TM do one, but I have only ever heard people complain about theirs. I love a good MP5, I have a TM SD6, lovely little gun, however it feels too plasticy to me, apparently ICS do a nice feeling and good performing MP5, however I have never seen or used one.

I have had a MP7 and MP9 GBB, and I despised both of them, gas efficiency is pathetic,  reliability was non existant(I had the WE- however the TM has a lot of fans).

I like the look of the scorpion, it’s probably my next gun to get, but I haven’t used one to comment any further.

Help us a little further with a budget? Of the type of site you play at?

 

[Adolf Hamster]

personally i'd go old school and go for the mp5, but then that's because i love the mp5 and the p90 is a bit close to the f2000

wouldnt get the sd version, but go for the fc3 look with a big ass can on the front.

or the same thing but with an aksu (wooden furniture obviously  )

but then a 1928 thompson with obligatory drum mag.... or a ppsh41.....

yeah i should stop, you're not going to get any sensible advice on this from me

 

[Sheepy]

Hmmm, never seen a “good” P90 out of the box, I know TM do one, but I have only ever heard people complain about theirs. I love a good MP5, I have a TM SD6, lovely little gun, however it feels too plasticy to me, apparently ICS do a nice feeling and good performing MP5, however I have never seen or used one.

I have had a MP7 and MP9 GBB, and I despised both of them, gas efficiency is pathetic,  reliability was non existant(I had the WE- however the TM has a lot of fans).

I like the like of the scorpion, it’s probably my next gun to get, but I haven’t used one to comment any further.

Help us a little further with a budget? Of the type of site you play at?

Thank for the info and Well the site I play it is woodland but I want it for primarily a backup and when I play at a new cqb opening close to me and my budget is stuck at a max of 250 but I’d rather go cheaper 

personally i'd go old school and go for the mp5, but then that's because i love the mp5 and the p90 is a bit close to the f2000

wouldnt get the sd version, but go for the fc3 look with a big ass can on the front.

or the same thing but with an aksu (wooden furniture obviously  )

but then a 1928 thompson with obligatory drum mag.... or a ppsh41.....

yeah i should stop, you're not going to get any sensible advice on this from me

Haha ye I do like the look of an mp5 mainly because of the tacticool look ? and I never thought getting a older era weapon I’ll have to look into those. Thanks 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Thank for the info and Well the site I play it is woodland but I want it for primarily a backup and when I play at a new cqb opening close to me and my budget is stuck at a max of 250 but I’d rather go cheaper 

Haha ye I do like the look of an mp5 mainly because of the tacticool look ? and I never thought getting a older era weapon I’ll have to look into those. Thanks 

well the thing i'd say is in favour of the likes of a ppsh or thompson is it's perfectly acceptable to run a drum mag, so there might be some cost savings there (well, if you're like me and insist on running midcaps in everything unless a drum is appropriate).

the mp5/aksu would be pretty versatile as you've got a decent range of time periods to pick a look from right up to the current day, if that's your thing.

 

[Sheepy]

well the thing i'd say is in favour of the likes of a ppsh or thompson is it's perfectly acceptable to run a drum mag, so there might be some cost savings there (well, if you're like me and insist on running midcaps in everything unless a drum is appropriate).

the mp5/aksu would be pretty versatile as you've got a decent range of time periods to pick a look from right up to the current day, if that's your thing.

While I do like the ppsh or Thomson I’m one of them mtp mofos and I don’t think I could jury rig one  to match my load out So I’ll most likely end up going for a modernish one I personally have never used drum or big ammo I’m more a mid or low cap the winding of the mag really irritates me 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

While I do like the ppsh or Thomson I’m one of them mtp mofos and I don’t think I could jury rig one  to match my load out So I’ll most likely end up going for a modernish one I personally have never used drum or big ammo I’m more a mid or low cap the winding of the mag really irritates me 

same as me then (minus the mtp)

it's really up to you, personally i don't really care about being totally period correct, but if that bothers you then as you say something a bit more modern might be what you need.

one of the guys round here regularly goes with a 1928 and dpm, so mtp wouldn't be too much more of a crime.

 

[Iceni]

Aug commando.

Standard V3 gearbox, spares easy to get. Nice and short, but with the advantage of having a full length inner barrel since it's a bullpup.

Mags are cheap if you go to Poland. And have good compatibility regardless of branding. 80, 110, 170 rnd midcaps are available.

Space for a small mosfet, and you don't have to open the gearbox to add a fet since it's externally wired.

A few companies produce the variant atm.

TM do a high cycle that is out of budget.

ASG do a rebrand with added trades of the APS model.

APS do a non traded version.

GFC (gunfire corp) do a variant of the APS as well.

https://gunfire.pl/product-eng-1152216089-GFG54-carbine-replica-tan.html

JG also make one now and Sow wolf are rebranding it for GFC. I'm not sure what these are like internally.

https://gunfire.pl/product-eng-1152215959-SW-020T-Carbine-Replica-Tan.html

Out of the box both models should have no problems, The JG piston and cylinder heads are better than APS, and JG has a nicer trigger, JG also use plastic bushings. APS in contrast have metal bearings, And a slightly sloppier trigger (it uses a sprung bar rather than ball dendents on JG). And a single o-ring cylinder head. Both models have QC springs, and exactly the same hop/inner barrels. The bodies are slightly different with APS having a raised area on the pistol grip and body with extra texture, JG use an all over texture with no raised areas.

 

 

[Sheepy]

same as me then (minus the mtp)

it's really up to you, personally i don't really care about being totally period correct, but if that bothers you then as you say something a bit more modern might be what you need.

one of the guys round here regularly goes with a 1928 and dpm, so mtp wouldn't be too much more of a crime.

Haha ye true I think it’s just my ocd tbh

Aug commando.

Standard V3 gearbox, spares easy to get. Nice and short, but with the advantage of having a full length inner barrel since it's a bullpup.

Mags are cheap if you go to Poland. And have good compatibility regardless of branding. 80, 110, 170 rnd midcaps are available.

Space for a small mosfet, and you don't have to open the gearbox to add a fet since it's externally wired.

A few companies produce the variant atm.

TM do a high cycle that is out of budget.

ASG do a rebrand with added trades of the APS model.

APS do a non traded version.

GFC (gunfire corp) do a variant of the APS as well.

https://gunfire.pl/product-eng-1152216089-GFG54-carbine-replica-tan.html

JG also make one now and Sow wolf are rebranding it for GFC. I'm not sure what these are like internally.

https://gunfire.pl/product-eng-1152215959-SW-020T-Carbine-Replica-Tan.html

Out of the box both models should have no problems, The JG piston and cylinder heads are better than APS, and JG has a nicer trigger, JG also use plastic bushings. APS in contrast have metal bearings, And a slightly sloppier trigger (it uses a sprung bar rather than ball dendents on JG). And a single o-ring cylinder head. Both models have QC springs, and exactly the same hop/inner barrels. The bodies are slightly different with APS having a raised area on the pistol grip and body with extra texture, JG use an all over texture with no raised areas.

 

What’s your take on the overall reliability of it, I quite like the look of one but I have no Idea the durability of aps/JG or v3 GB In general, the last thing I want is for it full apart on me ?

 

[Iceni]

Personally I have no issue with the AUG platform. I've got 2 of them and both shoot very well. Not all people think this is the case with them so I'll give you some honest opinions.

The main flaws of the platform would be noise, your head is over the gearbox, and it's just a big hollow space. Silent upgrades suit the AUG, Silent piston and cylinder heads, solid spring guides, and a well greased spring all work to improve the experience for the shooter. The upgrades are not essential but a stock aug will make you battle deaf in a few shots, and the spring twanging can be annoying.

They also have some problems with stray BB's getting into the body if you don't pull the mag directly down on release. Easy enough to get them out and people often shim the magwell to help stop this.

Most of the problems people talk about with them are caused by lack of understanding of the platform. The Hop and gearbox have some movement, and you have to be careful when you build them so as to get the alignment right. And you have to be careful when you strip them. It's easy to break the airseal nozzles, or seat the gearbox badly. They also have some wobble between the upper and lower that can be shimmed out.

Mechanically V3 gearboxes are very solid, They don't have cracking issues even when ran on big springs, And they don't have cut outs for wires as the wires are all external. Working on a V3 is a pretty simple affair, the only problem that is aug specific is the trigger can be confusing to get back in as it's a 2 part trigger. If you can work on a v2 you will like v3 I've yet to meet anyone that thinks v2's are better to work on.

The aug runs 2 sets of contacts, 1 for full auto and one to a dolly for single shot. So there is no selector plate to worry about. The whole gearbox including motor comes out from the rear of the gun. The motor has it's own cage that bolts to the gearbox, and you set the motor height up out of the gun, but once it's done it never moves. 2 screws and a plate removed and the gearbox will come out with some persuasion.

The hops are decent, rotary style with a short mag feed tube. They don't tend to wander out of adjustment and will lift well. There are 2 screws that retain the hop to the outer barrel that need to be in the correct place, and the hop needs to be free moving on the barrel spring (this not been right can be a source of frustration).

You can fit a 7.4v lipo in them without a problem, the loom is short, and can be modified without opening the gearbox.

The trigger is dual stage, Half pull to a light stop is single shot, pull past that to a hard stop is full auto. It takes a little practice but is very useful in game as it means you will never find yourself without full auto or single shot. You can modify the safety bar to allow single shot only, it takes a little file work to do.

Externally augs are solid, the plastics feels cheap, but it's reasonably thick, and will take the knocks of airsoft without needing to be careful.

To shoot Augs are comfortable, Can be shot right and left handed. The commando variant is rear heavy, shoulders well, and points very well.

Augs are a platform that can be tweaked to high hell, and users of them tend to be tweakers.


My A3 gearbox has these upgrades:

SHS bore up cylinder head/piston head/cylinder/airseal nozzle, ASG 35K motor, Steel bushings, Solid spring guide, CNC hop. Gate nano hard fet (this gun doesn't have the QC spring hence solid spring guide).

My A1:

SHS bore up cylinder head/piston/cylinder/airseal nozzle, Xcoretech 304u fet.


I use the bore up kits from SHS because they have silent heads, and with a 20 x 2.5mm o-ring the airseal is fantastic.


If I were to get the JG model, I would upgrade:

Bushings, shimming, Perhaps a silent head system, and a cheap fet x304u ect,

If I were to get an APS model, I would upgrade:

Shimming,  silent head system, and a cheap fet. (aps piston heads are garbage).


So there is very little difference in the upgrades I would do to each model. I would be happy to shoot either out of the box without upgrades provided they chrono correctly. Both models have flaws, the APS piston head is awful (it has an injection point on the sealing edge), JG use nylon bushings. Neither will cause major problems but both will eventually want addressing. I would perhaps give the nod of approval to JG since the airseal with JG tends to be better, and the trigger has a more positive single shot stop, but it's splitting hairs.

JG might have changed to metal bushings or bearings. You should be able to see this from the outside of the gearbox. All of my experience with the JG models is with the non QC spring gearbox. The QC box should have upgrades already in place like a metal spring guide ect. It would be a case of either trying to find out, or risking and upgrading. AK2M4 have bushing ect at very good prices if you decided to go that route.




 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

that was a long post

does the aug have the same thing going on as the f2000- really loud to the user but apparently silent to everyone else?

my only experience with working on aug's is a chap at a local site managed to somehow get the body pin loose inside the body and the whole thing had filled with bb's, but it wasnt a massively big issue to fix.

 

[Iceni]

does the aug have the same thing going on as the f2000- really loud to the user but apparently silent to everyone else? 

Out of the box no. It's very loud to the shooter and normal to everyone else.

Once you start to add the silent upgrades that changes, you can get the gun almost silent to everyone else but normal sounding to the shooter. Both my guns are hard to detect on the field. My A3 for instance can be shot in the house, and my missus sat downstairs has no idea. Because the noise it makes isn't sharp it's also hard to pinpoint. Often on the field people fail to find me in a fire fight as everyone else's gun is distracting them, Unless they spot me the sound my gun makes isn't going to give me away.

 

my only experience with working on aug's is a chap at a local site managed to somehow get the body pin loose inside the body and the whole thing had filled with bb's, but it wasnt a massively big issue to fix.

That happens when you split the gun with a full mag. Normally you don't touch the body pin. He was probably showing off the field strip simplicity and forgot the mag was in. To clear the BB's you fully separate the upper, Invert the body and shake it. It's the same when you get BB's in the body through mag changes. You remove the mag, split the body invert and shake. Some 2mm foam double sided taped into the magwell goes a long way to stopping this. The same foam double sided taped into the body also helps deaden the gun noise. It's basic tweaks to get the gun perfect. The foam I've been using is thin roll out workshop mat I think it cost me £10 for a 3m roll, And I have most of the roll left.

 

 

[Sheepy]

Out of the box no. It's very loud to the shooter and normal to everyone else.

Once you start to add the silent upgrades that changes, you can get the gun almost silent to everyone else but normal sounding to the shooter. Both my guns are hard to detect on the field. My A3 for instance can be shot in the house, and my missus sat downstairs has no idea. Because the noise it makes isn't sharp it's also hard to pinpoint. Often on the field people fail to find me in a fire fight as everyone else's gun is distracting them, Unless they spot me the sound my gun makes isn't going to give me away.

 

That happens when you split the gun with a full mag. Normally you don't touch the body pin. He was probably showing off the field strip simplicity and forgot the mag was in. To clear the BB's you fully separate the upper, Invert the body and shake it. It's the same when you get BB's in the body through mag changes. You remove the mag, split the body invert and shake. Some 2mm foam double sided taped into the magwell goes a long way to stopping this. The same foam double sided taped into the body also helps deaden the gun noise. It's basic tweaks to get the gun perfect. The foam I've been using is thin roll out workshop mat I think it cost me £10 for a 3m roll, And I have most of the roll left.

 

So the aug a3 is good then out curriosity what is it like performance wise stock, you know rps and range and the like 

 

[Iceni]

So the aug a3 is good then out curriosity what is it like performance wise stock, you know rps and range and the like  

The a3 is probably the worst of all the variants TBF. It's front heavy and doesn't feel as nimble as the other models.

Internally all augs are pretty much identical. They all have the same body, gearbox, and hop. TM tweak it a little for the high cycle but it's tweaks not a redesign.

The uppers and inner barrels are the only major differences.

A1's have a 509mm inner barrel and a built in scope with no RIS options.
A2's have a 509mm inner barrel and a single rail
A3's have the full heavy weight RIS
Para's are cut down A1 and A2 variants, generally 320mm inner barrels
Commando are cut down, 320mm inner, and the upper is a different design with a better foregrip than the A1/A2 and without the weight of the A3. The commando is the best variant IMHO. It has the most features, and the best layout without excess weight.

My A3 stock was shooting 18rps with the JG motor, 22 rps with the SHS high speed, 25rps on the asg35K. All gears are stock 18:1.

The APS stock shoots at 15rps.

All with 7.4 30c batteries.


Range is user dependant, Out of the box both of my guns were capable and didn't feel outraged on open field play. The hop is well respected and will lift a 0.28g at 350fps without problems. The CNC hop i got is actually worthless as the stock hop is just as capable, But I needed to see that so I got the CNC unit anyway.

 

[Sheepy]

The a3 is probably the worst of all the variants TBF. It's front heavy and doesn't feel as nimble as the other models.

Internally all augs are pretty much identical. They all have the same body, gearbox, and hop. TM tweak it a little for the high cycle but it's tweaks not a redesign.

The uppers and inner barrels are the only major differences.

A1's have a 509mm inner barrel and a built in scope with no RIS options.
A2's have a 509mm inner barrel and a single rail
A3's have the full heavy weight RIS
Para's are cut down A1 and A2 variants, generally 320mm inner barrels
Commando are cut down, 320mm inner, and the upper is a different design with a better foregrip than the A1/A2 and without the weight of the A3. The commando is the best variant IMHO. It has the most features, and the best layout without excess weight.

My A3 stock was shooting 18rps with the JG motor, 22 rps with the SHS high speed, 25rps on the asg35K. All gears are stock 18:1.

The APS stock shoots at 15rps.

All with 7.4 30c batteries.


Range is user dependant, Out of the box both of my guns were capable and didn't feel outraged on open field play. The hop is well respected and will lift a 0.28g at 350fps without problems. The CNC hop i got is actually worthless as the stock hop is just as capable, But I needed to see that so I got the CNC unit anyway.

Thank you  for the info mate, it’s been a massive help 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Out of the box no. It's very loud to the shooter and normal to everyone else.

Once you start to add the silent upgrades that changes, you can get the gun almost silent to everyone else but normal sounding to the shooter. Both my guns are hard to detect on the field. My A3 for instance can be shot in the house, and my missus sat downstairs has no idea. Because the noise it makes isn't sharp it's also hard to pinpoint. Often on the field people fail to find me in a fire fight as everyone else's gun is distracting them, Unless they spot me the sound my gun makes isn't going to give me away.

 

That happens when you split the gun with a full mag. Normally you don't touch the body pin. He was probably showing off the field strip simplicity and forgot the mag was in. To clear the BB's you fully separate the upper, Invert the body and shake it. It's the same when you get BB's in the body through mag changes. You remove the mag, split the body invert and shake. Some 2mm foam double sided taped into the magwell goes a long way to stopping this. The same foam double sided taped into the body also helps deaden the gun noise. It's basic tweaks to get the gun perfect. The foam I've been using is thin roll out workshop mat I think it cost me £10 for a 3m roll, And I have most of the roll left.

 

I dont think the chap intentionally split it, he'd had it wrapped in scrim net and the pin had sort of managed to come loose internally.

Took a bit of poking to get the pin out and as you say a good shake got the bb's out no bother, dont think he had issues the rest of the day.

 

[Iceni]

I dont think the chap intentionally split it, he'd had it wrapped in scrim net and the pin had sort of managed to come loose internally.

That might actually be caused by the hop spring. It pushes the hop towards the gearbox, And the secondary effect is to tighten the body pin. If the spring is weak, Hop screws are too long, or the inner barrel has been spaced tightly then it affects the amount of clamping force put on the body pin. It's almost the polar opposite of how an M4 inner barrel and hop are expected to function! It's one of the reasons you can't generalise some aspects of airsoft because things that work on one system cause problems on another!

 

[emilianoksa]

Who makes the ASG Aug Commando?

Is it a decent aeg? Looks ideal for CQB.

Not a gun you see much of. Is that because of the Bovril nature of its appearance,  or has it had problems?