Skirmisher

[Countryman]

Sorry guys, still intrigued by the VCRA.

Can somebody point out the bit of the Act that defines a skirmisher or skirmish or makes skirmishing the same standard as a historical re-enactment Group which is specified in the Act?

I was somewhere the the other day where a chap was explaining UKARA and definitively said “illegal to own” a RIF without UKARA. Made me cock my head.

Far from illegal to own or buy, UKARA is a Defence for the seller. Specifically the retailer because as far as I can see nobody else has access to the database. It helps them to prove they have checked that someone is a regular user of an insured site.

If I privately sell my RIF to a bloke on a skirmish day what other proof do I need to need that he wants it for that purpose? If indeed a Skirmish has the weight of Historical Re-enactment for the purpose of a specific defence to the Act.

 

[Countryman]

Partially answering my own question

Amendment in 2007

The regulations provide for two new defences. The first is for the organisation and holding of airsoft skirmishing. This is defined by reference to “permitted activities” and the defence applies only where third party liability insurance is held in respect of the activities. The second new defence is for the purpose of display at arms fairs, defined in the regulations by reference to “permitted events”.

1. The regulations also specify the persons who can claim the defence for historical re-enactment. This is restricted to those organising or taking part in re-enactment activities for which third party liability insurance is held.
   
2. For manufacturers, importers and vendors to claim one of the defences, they must be able to show that their conduct was for purpose of making realistic imitation firearms available for one of the reasons specified in the defences above. How they should satisfy themselves of this will vary from case to case and it might be advisable for them to keep a record of this for each transaction. In some cases they could ask to see, for example, a letter from the commissioning film or television company.
   

In others, for example an importer, they might want to rely on orders from a supplier to the film industry. For re-enactments, it would be advisable to ask to see any membership card and to check that either the individual or the re-enactment society holds the required insurance. For airsoft skirmishing, the Association of British Airsoft is putting in place arrangements to allow retailers to check that individual purchasers are members of a genuine skirmishing club or site. The key elements of these arrangements are:

• new players must play at least 3three times in a period of not less than two months the two months before being offered membership
  
• membership cards with a photograph and recognized format will be issued for production to retailers
  
• a central database will be set up for retailers to cross-check a purchaser’s details
  
• a member’s entry on the database will be deleted if unused for 12 months.
  

1. The defence for airsoft skirmishing can apply to individual players because their purchase of realistic imitation firearms for this purpose is considered part of the “holding” of a skirmishing event
   

 

[Rogerborg]

Crikey, you're an early riser.  Yes, that's it, exactly.  Anyone who tells you that it's illegal to "own" (or purchase, if you're 18+) an airsoft RIF is talking jive, and should be invited to cite what Act and section creates the offence.

It is a Firearms Act 1968 S19 offence to possess any imitation firearm in public, and it's one of those vile guilty-until-proven-innocent offence as the exception is "without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him)".  That's why I recommend making some sort of booking before going skirmishing, even if it's just a Facebook post.  Better to have it and not need it than t'other way around.

 

[Countryman]

Had a wakeful period in the night. To an insomniac unpicking the VCRA is nothing

So in terms of me as a private seller, flogging a RIF on the for sale bench at my local Skirmish to a fellow team mate, on the day would seem completely ligitimate? What more would you need to prove the buyer is a skirmisher?

Making a prior booking would seem reasonable with no other defence,  particularly if catching public transport in a city.

 

[Gepard]

Had a wakeful period in the night. To an insomniac unpicking the VCRA is nothing

So in terms of me as a private seller, flogging a RIF on the for sale bench at my local Skirmish to a fellow team mate, on the day would seem completely ligitimate? What more would you need to prove the buyer is a skirmisher?

Making a prior booking would seem reasonable with no other defence,  particularly if catching public transport in a city.

Personally I would sell to anybody over the age of 18 who I've seen a couple times at my local site. Turning up alone proves you're an active player and a valid defense in my eyes. 

Most sites have a booking option so as @Rogerborg says just keep a record of it in case something does happen. 

 

[Rogerborg]

So in terms of me as a private seller, flogging a RIF on the for sale bench at my local Skirmish to a fellow team mate, on the day would seem completely ligitimate? What more would you need to prove the buyer is a skirmisher?

I can't think of a better way.

Analysed pedantically - the best kind of analysis - it's a very curious defence.  The offence is committed at the instant of sale, there's no grace period, and the defence should be rock solid at that point in time, and not dependent on what the buyer might do (or not do) with it weeks, days, or minutes later.  A UKARA number only shows what you have done, not what you will do.

Consider: a collector who does their three games, gets a UKARA number, then buys a dozen RIFs while cheerfully declaring "They're just going on the wall".

Or: a sting operation where a tool of the State makes purchase, and then declares "You're nicked, prove your defence".  That could be by post, face-to-face, at a pub, on a game site, with or without a UKARA number, or one that looks like one but isn't, or isn't theirs.

The defence is, very strictly, "to show that his conduct was for the purpose only of making the imitation firearm in question available for [the purpose of airsoft skirmishing at an insured site]".

But you can't possibly prove at the point of sale what the buyer might have done later, and unlike some offences there's no "reasonable belief" clause.  Without a test case, we have no idea how that will be interpreted.  Sale at a site, a UKARA number, a booking acknowledgement, personal knowledge, or even just a sale contract where the buyer confirms that the purchase is only for the the purpose of airsoft skirmishing at insured sites (or any of the other defences) - any or all of those could be judged to be sufficient, or insufficient.

Half of me wants to know, half hopes we never find out.

 

[Countryman]

I can't think of a better way.

Analysed pedantically - the best kind of analysis - it's a very curious defence.  The offence is committed at the instant of sale, there's no grace period, and the defence should be rock solid at that point in time, and not dependent on what the buyer might do (or not do) with it weeks, days, or minutes later.  A UKARA number only shows what you have done, not what you will do.

Consider: a collector who does their three games, gets a UKARA number, then buys a dozen RIFs while cheerfully declaring "They're just going on the wall".

Or: a sting operation where a tool of the State makes purchase, and then declares "You're nicked, prove your defence".  That could be by post, face-to-face, at a pub, on a game site, with or without a UKARA number, or one that looks like one but isn't, or isn't theirs.

The defence is, very strictly, "to show that his conduct was for the purpose only of making the imitation firearm in question available for [the purpose of airsoft skirmishing at an insured site]".

But you can't possibly prove at the point of sale what the buyer might have done later, and unlike some offences there's no "reasonable belief" clause.  Without a test case, we have no idea how that will be interpreted.  Sale at a site, a UKARA number, a booking acknowledgement, personal knowledge, or even just a sale contract where the buyer confirms that the purchase is only for the the purpose of airsoft skirmishing at insured sites (or any of the other defences) - any or all of those could be judged to be sufficient, or insufficient.

Half of me wants to know, half hopes we never find out.

“Tool of the state” Well played Sir!

The difficulty is when a private seller wants to sell me his RIF and I say my UKARA number is CON12345 and he is actually stuck. The number may or may not be valid but he has asked the question, got an answer and can really but take the cash. He could call the site but I wonder how often that happens. Probably better to look at the bloke you are selling to and weigh up if he is the type.

I’d be really ticked off if one of my kids was irresponsible enough to be doing a deal out of the boot of their car, in  pub car park, with some “hoodie Chav” because of the harm potentially to all the law abiding hobbyists but the law doesn’t stop said Chav dropping in 3 times to their local site, obtaining UKARA and starting illegal distribution to their “Homies”

In honesty though it’s not kids wanting RIFs that’s the issue, its the ease with which they can and do obtain the real thing on the black market that’s the problem. That and the fact society and the press has created such a disproportionate culture of fear around firearms.

Genuine literal BB deaths were probably zero. Meanwhile 215 people in this country were stabbed to death in the year to March 2017. Go Figure!

 

[Rogerborg]

Time for a crackdown on Realistic Imitation Knives?