Single fire lock up
- Thread starter oddjob
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Sitting Duck
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- May 11, 2014
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it is the dead zone as I tend to call it...
usually happens on a slower running stock gun at 12-13rps though it can happen on any gun
but at slower speeds in semi - taking longer to cycle people take their finger off trigger a tad too early
if that happens and the cut off lever is still raised
it won't fire in semi properly until you go to auto - fire it a bit to move the sector/cut off lever so it settles then you can fire in semi again
DO NOT FORCE IT IF IT WON'T FIRE IN SEMI - YOU WILL BREAK IT
learn trigger discipline or get gun to run a bit quicker say 20rps and should happen less often
it can still happen if selector plate, cut off lever worn, tiny cut off spring missing or weak, the whole thing not operating correctly etc...
but usually new players run into this semi firing issue coz they don't know about it - force it and balls stuff up
easy to reduce it happening by ensuring you don't release trigger that smidge too early
usually happens on a slower running stock gun at 12-13rps though it can happen on any gun
but at slower speeds in semi - taking longer to cycle people take their finger off trigger a tad too early
if that happens and the cut off lever is still raised
it won't fire in semi properly until you go to auto - fire it a bit to move the sector/cut off lever so it settles then you can fire in semi again
DO NOT FORCE IT IF IT WON'T FIRE IN SEMI - YOU WILL BREAK IT
learn trigger discipline or get gun to run a bit quicker say 20rps and should happen less often
it can still happen if selector plate, cut off lever worn, tiny cut off spring missing or weak, the whole thing not operating correctly etc...
but usually new players run into this semi firing issue coz they don't know about it - force it and balls stuff up
easy to reduce it happening by ensuring you don't release trigger that smidge too early
Sitting Duck
Supporters
- May 11, 2014
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thought it was user error
then squeeze trigger harder & harder....
crack - ooh heck = now it's broke
then squeeze trigger harder & harder....
crack - ooh heck = now it's broke
jcheeseright
Supporters
- Jun 14, 2012
- 4,280
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it's just what happens when a v2 gearbox doesn't finish a cycle, the cut-off lever locks the gearbox.
The only way to 100% fix it is to install a MOSFET that ensures cycle completion.
The only way to 100% fix it is to install a MOSFET that ensures cycle completion.
Sitting Duck
Supporters
- May 11, 2014
- 4,894
- 1,735
Or buy a poxy DSG FireHawk - no semi - no lockup
can't use it in cqb but it don't lock up - well until it busts
in theory it happens on most boxes and the L85/R85 with precocking lock up too
it is just something that new users and slower responsive guns can happen more frequently if releasing trigger in wrong place/too early
can't use it in cqb but it don't lock up - well until it busts
in theory it happens on most boxes and the L85/R85 with precocking lock up too
it is just something that new users and slower responsive guns can happen more frequently if releasing trigger in wrong place/too early
Sitting Duck
Supporters
- May 11, 2014
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The only way to fully eradicate it is to fit a complete mosfet board like the BTC Spectre
or ACSU - but heard the ACSU is no way as good as BTC
BTC's are made in limited batches, £100 and fitted internally with more bells on than St Pauls Cathedral
They both completely replace the normal switch & cut off lever operating the switch trolley to disengage and fly back on semi
The cut off lever instead is triggering another microswitch telling the unit exactly when lever is raised on semi
The unit completes the cycle in semi or burst or full auto even with just a quick flick of trigger....
it continues to fire the selected fire mode even if trigger is released until the unit senses the cut off point - then parks the sector gear correctly
(coz it has the microswitch sensing that required point)
Ares, G&G and some others do a basic burst option with their control systems but are very very basic systems compared to BTC
A prog mosfet like Gate Merf 3.2 or Kong Burst does not have the cut off sensor inside the box and uses the conventional switch system
Instead they "guess" in burst modes when to park the sector after completing the cycle/burst
or in semi - a quick flick they will continue to complete the one shot cycle even if the trigger is flicked very very quickly...
it will complete the single shot you started in the first place
They are all quite clever, user may need to fine tune some settings which can be a headache to get your head around at first
But to be truely honest it would probably be easier to learn a bit of trigger discipline as to when you release ya finger of the trigger
This is quite straight forward once you get ya head around it and rarely would you get the lock up or dead zone problem after a while
So in order to eradicate it with BTC you are looking to spending the same amount on the Raider as the gun was new
or
Fitting a prog mosfet is gonna be £50+
and still you will have to get your head around it at first to configure it all up
Your best bet imho is to tweak the gun up a little and boost her speed to about 20rps
At this speed the cycle times will be less and you will greatly reduce the chance of letting go the trigger too early
(especially once you get the hang of trigger discipline)
You could fit the Spectre, and still have the G&G running at about 13-14rps or 20 on 11.1v lipo
(you should be using 11.1v then as you have a mosfet now but still need additional tweaks like AoE)
Or do the tweaks, basic mosfet (you can replace with a prog fet later if you wish)
add in a fast neodym motor and hit 20's on 7.4v or 8.4v
Up to you how far you go with it all but reckon for what gun is worth a few tweaks, easier trigger discipline at 20rps
well that is what I think many on here will run with
or put the money towards a better snappier gun out of the box
yes you could get a G&G ETU gun but they have their qwirks too needing higher juice say 11.1v lipo's to run
and still G&G may have to replace some units for some people
ahh technology is wonderful - when it bloomin' works that is
or ACSU - but heard the ACSU is no way as good as BTC
BTC's are made in limited batches, £100 and fitted internally with more bells on than St Pauls Cathedral
They both completely replace the normal switch & cut off lever operating the switch trolley to disengage and fly back on semi
The cut off lever instead is triggering another microswitch telling the unit exactly when lever is raised on semi
The unit completes the cycle in semi or burst or full auto even with just a quick flick of trigger....
it continues to fire the selected fire mode even if trigger is released until the unit senses the cut off point - then parks the sector gear correctly
(coz it has the microswitch sensing that required point)
Ares, G&G and some others do a basic burst option with their control systems but are very very basic systems compared to BTC
A prog mosfet like Gate Merf 3.2 or Kong Burst does not have the cut off sensor inside the box and uses the conventional switch system
Instead they "guess" in burst modes when to park the sector after completing the cycle/burst
or in semi - a quick flick they will continue to complete the one shot cycle even if the trigger is flicked very very quickly...
it will complete the single shot you started in the first place
They are all quite clever, user may need to fine tune some settings which can be a headache to get your head around at first
But to be truely honest it would probably be easier to learn a bit of trigger discipline as to when you release ya finger of the trigger
This is quite straight forward once you get ya head around it and rarely would you get the lock up or dead zone problem after a while
So in order to eradicate it with BTC you are looking to spending the same amount on the Raider as the gun was new
or
Fitting a prog mosfet is gonna be £50+
and still you will have to get your head around it at first to configure it all up
Your best bet imho is to tweak the gun up a little and boost her speed to about 20rps
At this speed the cycle times will be less and you will greatly reduce the chance of letting go the trigger too early
(especially once you get the hang of trigger discipline)
You could fit the Spectre, and still have the G&G running at about 13-14rps or 20 on 11.1v lipo
(you should be using 11.1v then as you have a mosfet now but still need additional tweaks like AoE)
Or do the tweaks, basic mosfet (you can replace with a prog fet later if you wish)
add in a fast neodym motor and hit 20's on 7.4v or 8.4v
Up to you how far you go with it all but reckon for what gun is worth a few tweaks, easier trigger discipline at 20rps
well that is what I think many on here will run with
or put the money towards a better snappier gun out of the box
yes you could get a G&G ETU gun but they have their qwirks too needing higher juice say 11.1v lipo's to run
and still G&G may have to replace some units for some people
ahh technology is wonderful - when it bloomin' works that is
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jcheeseright
Supporters
- Jun 14, 2012
- 4,280
- 2,261
a BTC is NOT £100!
They're £100 if you buy one from a retailer, but if you buy them direct they're more like £70:
http://www.btcairsoft.com/spectre_v2gb
$100, shipping from the US is like $8 and I've never had one caught by customs.
They're £100 if you buy one from a retailer, but if you buy them direct they're more like £70:
http://www.btcairsoft.com/spectre_v2gb
$100, shipping from the US is like $8 and I've never had one caught by customs.
Sitting Duck
Supporters
- May 11, 2014
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Well that is if you can find them coz the last batch or pre-orders has sold out on Airsoft Mechanics as well.....
The £ to $ rate has nosedived also at about $1:40 to £ - was below that last week but well below norm of about $1:60
currently with your by direct quote it is £76.33 though expect that to go near £80 due to fluctuations in real conversion rates
plus additional surchages on credit cards or paypal fees that banks sometimes slap on equating to stuff not always being exactly the price you think it works out to...
So yes you could get it for about $115 ish is latest price or about £80 if you can get on pre-order list
or
I say £100 as a roundabout figure if you track one down in UK with a markup on top (if you can find one)
So I don't think my original figure of £100 was that far off....
https://airlab.parts/products/btc-spectre-fet-for-v2?variant=739259283
Still out of stock in most places and still for the OP I think it is way way overkill solution to his dilema
but let us say he manages to track one down for £90 - to save any bickering over prices
even after getting one - there is still a matter of who is going to fit the item ???
So if OP is having trouble learning trigger discipline atm
then I would not advise them to jump in at the deep end with fitting one
So if OP sends the £123 Raider to have it all fitted then I don't think they will see much change from £150 total
on a £123 Raider still running stock - I think I was roughly right in saying I personally would not bother going that far on that gun
Still to each their own - its Op's gun so I guess OP's decision if he gets the BTC in there....
To me - BTC in a G&G Raider....
it would be like fitting an super advanced cruise control system in an f*cking old Mini Metro
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jcheeseright
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- Jun 14, 2012
- 4,280
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There is no pre order list, they're first come first served. I've no idea why anyone pays the 'over the odds' prices people ask for BTC products when you can buy them direct from BTC which is exactly what all the retailers do before they slap on their markup.
Sitting Duck
Supporters
- May 11, 2014
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According to Airsoft Mechanics they use a special type of mosfet in there
these are not the normal run of the mill mosfet....
Gandolf / Gandalf one of the innovators of using mosfets also prefers to use a unique type of fet in his builds
latest one is his bobcat mini fet that doesn't use the regular 3034 but a special type of mosfet he buys from digikey
He buys up a supply before they are all sold out and this "could" be the type that BTC use
He stated that these fets quickly go out of stock and bought in bulk by numerous people other than him
Based on this and also the fact that BTC produce limited quantities, and furthermore in another thread it stated
that BTC actually asked the electronics company to increase production to meet demand but the company still makes limited quatities
These are what I have read and not my presumptions or misinterpretations unless I misunderstood plain english - though americanised
So I believe that BTC are made in limited numbers due to a shortage of supply rather than demand
And yes they release batches according to their own supplies they expect to receive
So with that limited supply and greater demand there is a general reason for these being out of stock
and people waiting for the next batch to be ready to ship - so though BTC may or may not take "pre-orders"
They may not always have them in stock, and if other retailers buy up a dozen or so and have their order processed by BTC
Then they (other retailers), will take pre-orders on confirmed stock allocation from BTC and price in a mark up on a product
The product itself will sell no problem due to demand exceeding actual supply - but still pre-orders exist at other retailers
and if potential customers do not move swiftly as & when BTC produce the next batch, then potential customers will have to consider
buying from retailers with a mark up on top........
To be honest we could go on about the price you pay and the general retail price most others might pay from local retailers or ones who have stock or not
But even at £80 or £100 - I still don't think I would bother fitting it into a £123 or say £100 s/hand value gun tbh as it is
Yes for $hits n giggles you could build a stfu polymer G&G gun that fires like f*ck with response and precocking blah blah blah
but really - even I wouldn't bother and just use it for what it is - maybe a few tweaks but no way go that mad on it
(even with a spectre in there it would still need more work internally and improve accuracy etc to warrant such a project)
So I was saying £100 from UK - or if you like £76:33 direct - still as n when they become available
but OP imho needs to consider other cheaper options and/or learn when to release the trigger and understand the way gun cycles as is
Phew - you are right & I'm completley wrong if you wish - I'm done on this Mini Metro cruise control project
these are not the normal run of the mill mosfet....
Gandolf / Gandalf one of the innovators of using mosfets also prefers to use a unique type of fet in his builds
latest one is his bobcat mini fet that doesn't use the regular 3034 but a special type of mosfet he buys from digikey
He buys up a supply before they are all sold out and this "could" be the type that BTC use
He stated that these fets quickly go out of stock and bought in bulk by numerous people other than him
Based on this and also the fact that BTC produce limited quantities, and furthermore in another thread it stated
that BTC actually asked the electronics company to increase production to meet demand but the company still makes limited quatities
These are what I have read and not my presumptions or misinterpretations unless I misunderstood plain english - though americanised
So I believe that BTC are made in limited numbers due to a shortage of supply rather than demand
And yes they release batches according to their own supplies they expect to receive
So with that limited supply and greater demand there is a general reason for these being out of stock
and people waiting for the next batch to be ready to ship - so though BTC may or may not take "pre-orders"
They may not always have them in stock, and if other retailers buy up a dozen or so and have their order processed by BTC
Then they (other retailers), will take pre-orders on confirmed stock allocation from BTC and price in a mark up on a product
The product itself will sell no problem due to demand exceeding actual supply - but still pre-orders exist at other retailers
and if potential customers do not move swiftly as & when BTC produce the next batch, then potential customers will have to consider
buying from retailers with a mark up on top........
To be honest we could go on about the price you pay and the general retail price most others might pay from local retailers or ones who have stock or not
But even at £80 or £100 - I still don't think I would bother fitting it into a £123 or say £100 s/hand value gun tbh as it is
Yes for $hits n giggles you could build a stfu polymer G&G gun that fires like f*ck with response and precocking blah blah blah
but really - even I wouldn't bother and just use it for what it is - maybe a few tweaks but no way go that mad on it
(even with a spectre in there it would still need more work internally and improve accuracy etc to warrant such a project)
So I was saying £100 from UK - or if you like £76:33 direct - still as n when they become available
but OP imho needs to consider other cheaper options and/or learn when to release the trigger and understand the way gun cycles as is
Phew - you are right & I'm completley wrong if you wish - I'm done on this Mini Metro cruise control project
Snakeeyes75
Members
- Jul 30, 2014
- 564
- 164
Every AEG I've owned has done the same! Including my TM Scar, however I worked out what the issue was. I've been using the wrong battery! I was running my Scar on a 7.4 1100mah lipo, switched it out for a 7.4 1450mah and its spot on! Basically the 1100mah can't discharge the power quick enough if I Snatch the trigger whereas the higher rated battery can!
