SAS lead the way

[Druid799]

So would appear yet again the hooligans are up front and leading anti terror operations , when are the Gov going to admit it’s not a police job it’s an army job ? The police are trained for law and order . 

The army ? There trained to take lives that’s it end off .

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[clumpyedge]

(CTSFO were there so technically a police job in collab with SAS) There were some more pics that The Reptile House Blog  posted CTSFO guys wearing Ferro Grey slickster's which I heard were only started at their request and are no more available. Some nice look gear and one very odd moment of a cycling resistance mask as well (picture one of the guy at the fence)

 

[EvilMonkee]

I have to admit that I laughed when I saw that bottom picture labelled in the Sun as a Policeman...yeh like police have really need to camo up and all to cam up their M4s.....

 

[Druid799]

Was have a long chat with a senior FA officer recently (being an A&E nurse I get to talk to a LOT of policemen as I’m sure you can guess ?) and he was saying that as far as he’s concerned he was more than happy for the army to take point on terrorist ops , he was of the opinion that when it comes to police officers there’s always going to be that split second “do I or don’t I ?” , all the way through training and daily work normally what ever the situation the police don’t actively aim to taking lives , but a soldier won’t give it a second thought there training its kill shot first deal with any consequences later and that micro second could be the difference between a dead terrorist and a shit load of intel , or a fecking big boom and a shit load of dead policemen and women .

I do think he makes a good point to ponder on ? 

 

[Tommikka]

I would disagree

Terrorism is a crime and not warfare.  It is defined by the act of terrrosim

Treating it as warfare gives credence to terrorists, which the IRA claimed for decades wanting to be treated as prisoners of war rather than criminals. 

Anti terrorism operations are 99% investigation and are a specialist remit of the police, hence the CTSFO

The SAS and other UKSF are armed forces and have a counter terrorism role as a minor part of their role.

It is false that a soldier can fire without a second thought, they must act within the RoE - which was evident with the Blackman case where they self documented evidence of a war crime - it would have been valid to kill up to one point until they crossed the line, also recording and keeping the evidence to the contrary 

The SAS are soldiers first and specialists later, the regiment is designed as almost a part time unit with some remaining permanently and others moving back and forth between the regiment and their original unit, but things have changed with all the commitments being called upon them 

There are ordinary and specialist soldiers today under the risk of having to legally account for actions they took as far back as the 70s.  Today’s soldiers are not immune to this

UKSF, the SRR etc should be called upon as approriate but are not the lead for UK counter terrorism 

 

[Tackle]

there is another issue, which may set a precedent, in that some of the " domestic" terrorism issues now being faced aren't all home grown internet educated jihadists, some may have travelled to shady places, possibly warzones, possibly even trained as part of state sponsored terrorism, taking the threat faced to a whole new level.

if intelligence received indicates any of this, then the military, in particular sf, are gonna be the best to deal with all aspects of threat faced.

 

[Vulpiness]

also I doubt the polis need silencers, but that doesn't make them SAS , or even military. spooks maybe? Hell they could jsut be a pair of bomb disposal boys. 

Also if ferro slicksters are sold out,w here are we going to get them for airsoft?

 

[Druid799]

I would disagree

Terrorism is a crime and not warfare.  It is defined by the act of terrrosim

Treating it as warfare gives credence to terrorists, which the IRA claimed for decades wanting to be treated as prisoners of war rather than criminals. 

Anti terrorism operations are 99% investigation and are a specialist remit of the police, hence the CTSO

The SAS and other UKSF are armed forces and have a counter terrorism role as a minor part of their role.

It is false that a soldier can fire without a second thought, they must act within the RoE - which was evident with the Blackman case where they self documented evidence of a war crime - it would have been valid to kill up to one point until they crossed the line, also recording and keeping the evidence to the contrary 

The SAS are soldiers first and specialists later, the regiment is designed as almost a part time unit with some remaining permanently and others moving back and forth between the regiment and their original unit, but things have changed with all the commitments being called upon them 

There are ordinary and specialist soldiers today under the risk of having to legally account for actions they took as far back as the 70s.  Today’s soldiers are not immune to this

UKSF, the SRR etc should be called upon as approriate but are not the lead for UK counter terrorism 

I do see where your coming from but I also have to disagree with you as well .

perhaps I hadn’t made clear I was only talking about the actual end game of an operation , totally agree about all the investigation work being done by the police , that’s what they do and there dam good at it .

But actually ‘kicking down doors’ ? I still think it should be left to the military (as I said this statement backed up by a serving police officer)

i also feel your analogy to the IRA is way off the mark , from my experience of Northern Ireland the IRA were thugs and criminals plain and simple , yes there were a few who genuinely wanted a United ireland but most ? They were in it for the money nothing more . Plus you old school IRA had nothing in common with your modern jihadist , believe me none of the provo’s were that much of a true believer that they were willing to give up there life for the cause !  

I know I’ve been out a very long time but I do think it’s safe to say when they go in to a suspected terrorist location that could have guns/explosives/bio or chemical threats there NOT worried about an RoE and they will shoot as soon as they see the target (unless the army has dramatically changed) So this is a totally different situation to Alex Blackman’s case , he’d been in continuous ops for mths , had basically been abandoned by the chain of command and was running on auto pilot and had become totally de-humanised by the whole situation he was in when he shot the taliban .

So again a totally different situation to a terrorist op in the Uk .

Your comment about SF guys jumping back and fourth between The regiment and there old parent unit , must say is a new one on me how long as that been going on ? Again only speaking from my own experience of having contact with SAS medics on training courses and such like but back then once you were badged , you stayed badged there was no RTU’ing unless you screwed up big time and got your self binned from the Regiment . 

 

[Tackle]

druids right, I too have been out of the game for a long time, but have pertinent experience, both my own & associates from back then, my last involvement was in '92, even then there was a distinct link being created between specific specialized military units & not only the police, but also paramedic services, the aim being to utilise the skills learnt the hard way.

Too many people are under the impression that the remit of the military is to ultimately end life, while there's an element of truth in that, if you were to look at the parent regiments of sf members, you'd see a very broad spectrum of regiments. For good reason.

But maybe we're just all speculating?

 

[clumpyedge]

also I doubt the polis need silencers, but that doesn't make them SAS , or even military. spooks maybe? Hell they could jsut be a pair of bomb disposal boys. 

Also if ferro slicksters are sold out,w here are we going to get them for airsoft?

I didn't think they were sold out as Tactical kit just had a restock (unless your making a joke)

 

[Tommikka]

I do see where your coming from but I also have to disagree with you as well .

perhaps I hadn’t made clear I was only talking about the actual end game of an operation , totally agree about all the investigation work being done by the police , that’s what they do and there dam good at it .

But actually ‘kicking down doors’ ? I still think it should be left to the military (as I said this statement backed up by a serving police officer)

i also feel your analogy to the IRA is way off the mark , from my experience of Northern Ireland the IRA were thugs and criminals plain and simple , yes there were a few who genuinely wanted a United ireland but most ? They were in it for the money nothing more . Plus you old school IRA had nothing in common with your modern jihadist , believe me none of the provo’s were that much of a true believer that they were willing to give up there life for the cause !  

I know I’ve been out a very long time but I do think it’s safe to say when they go in to a suspected terrorist location that could have guns/explosives/bio or chemical threats there NOT worried about an RoE and they will shoot as soon as they see the target (unless the army has dramatically changed) So this is a totally different situation to Alex Blackman’s case , he’d been in continuous ops for mths , had basically been abandoned by the chain of command and was running on auto pilot and had become totally de-humanised by the whole situation he was in when he shot the taliban .

So again a totally different situation to a terrorist op in the Uk .

Your comment about SF guys jumping back and fourth between The regiment and there old parent unit , must say is a new one on me how long as that been going on ? Again only speaking from my own experience of having contact with SAS medics on training courses and such like but back then once you were badged , you stayed badged there was no RTU’ing unless you screwed up big time and got your self binned from the Regiment . 

The back and forth is quite an old one, but more dependant on role and rank, and a degree against the regiments commitment. Bringing in constant new blood but also having a spread ‘resting’ back in their original units to be called upon when required or their next tour.

The officer situation being very different to the ranks with it being a career path requirement on the way to big things and a few who choose to keep in or as close to the SF.

In the ranks less so, once in then that’s that all the way.

It significantly changed with the needs of the 90s and the 21st century, but it may have also been an influencing tactic in the build from the rebuild of the SAS and having useful people in useful places, which was a feature in them being among the first to know via the networks about the Princes gate situation long before they were called upon

 

[Rogerborg]

My take-away from this incident is that if we're putting 100 boots through every door, then assigning dozens of lawyers to both prosecute, defend, and make hurty-feels oomin-rites compo claims, then the numbers aren't in our favour given that there are 23,000+ on the watch list, of which some 3,000 are considered high risk.

 

[comrade vinnie]

'Hell they could jsut be a pair of bomb disposal boys'

lol  no chance mate