New to Airsoft, need advice please...

[tclancey]

Hi folks.

I've been shooting air rifles in the field for years, but following a recent road accident I'm now in a wheelchair and can't get out anymore. I've taken up target shooting with air rifles and pistols and I'm thinking about getting into the Airsoft side of things. Obviously I'm not going to be running around shooting my friends, I'm more interested in accuracy in a different dicipline.

I don't really like the bright orange stuff on the market, I prefer something authentic looking, but as I say accuracy is more important than anything else.

So, could you kind folks please advise me on the best mid range kit to get started with? Should I go electric or gas? What range could I realisticly shoot targets at? (I do realise I'm looking at a far shorter distance than my 50yd air rifle range.) What ammo? Blah blah blah. I hope you get the idea.

Thanks.

 

[Samurai]

I think in taiwan or hong kong there is a sport where they shoot at coins at about 10 yards with highly accurate rifles. As far as I know those guns don't even have a hopup to get even more accuracy.

An upgraded bolt action airsoft sniper gun should hit a head sized target at 50 yards.

I would suggest a Marui VSR-10. That is the most accurate stock sniper gun and for yard shooting you can leave it as it is. You will need some good quality BBs for it and that's it.

AEGs and GBBRs are less accurate and need more maintenance.

 

[tclancey]

Thanks for the reply, this is sounding positive. Could you explain what a hopup is? I really need to do a lot more research!

 

[Chock]

Hop up is effectively 'back-spin'. The barrel of the airsoft weapon has an adjustable rubber stop inside the top of it, this induces back spin on the BB. This is the hop up mechanism, which is perhaps more correctly known as a 'bucking' device, but it is rarely called that. The hop up device can be adjusted up and down to contact the passing BB more, or less, thus the amount of back-spin can be adjusted.

Putting back-spin on an BB in flight induces the Magnus Effect, named after German physicist Gustav Magnus. The effect itself is broadly similar to the way a wing creates lift, i.e. with a pressure differential between the upper and lower surfaces of the wing as the air flows past its curved shape. Similarly, putting backspin on a sphere as it travels ballistically, forces air upwards and over it, causing less air pressure above the sphere than there is below it. This pressure differential pushes the sphere up, and prolongs its flight (in other words, backspin reduces ballistic drop). So the BB with some hop up backspin is basically 'flying' rather than simply following a ballistic trajectory.

 

[ikarma70]

I own a Dragunov svd springer and I can hit a tin can at 40 yards quite easily.

I chose the svd springer purely down to the fact it uses AEG springs, all I have down to mine is upgrade the hop up and fitted a 650mm 6.03 tight bore stainless barrel and it really is a simple gun to work on plus there is a co2 gas conversion kit that is easy to fit.

I would also recommend the cocking bolt extension as you can get very sore fingers after a while.

It's also the only dedicated sniper that comes with iron sights as standard and it comes with a 60 round magazine.

I would suggest trying a few sniper rifles before you buy.

 

[tclancey]

Thanks folks. I've looked into the back spin thing, it makes a lot of sense now I understand it. Although I don't understand why it's not just called back spin!

A tin can at 40 yards sounds exactly the kind of accuracy I'm after. What's the range/accuracy like with an assault?

Are there any laws against buying or supplying a realistic finish? Is this the reason for everything being a bright colour? This isn't the most important thing at all, but a bright orange rifle will look a bit odd in the rack next to my air rifles.

Thanks again folks.

 

[Russe11]

It may be worth asking local sites whether they can make provisions for wheelchair users. It might be tough for some sites to make things accessible due to the terrain but some of the more urban sites may be able to build some games around having someone in a fixed sniping/machinegun position. I did see one video ages ago where a wheelchair had been converted into a mini tank for a milsim game.

 

[JamesAirsofterAgent]

Ignoring the yanky accent:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0p1Rp4nCj00



You can still play?

Perhaps buy a riot shield and some pyros etc and do what Russell said?

 

[tclancey]

Thanks folks, some good ideas. I do have an all terrain wheelchair which I could certainly get around on, but it is bulky and would make a large target. I do like the idea of the riot shield!

There is a shop at Ingoldmels, which isn't far from where I am. I'm going to pop over and have a good chat with the folks there.

Thanks for all your replies, very much appreciated.

Cheers.

 

[Lozart]

Thanks folks, some good ideas. I do have an all terrain wheelchair which I could certainly get around on, but it is bulky and would make a large target. I do like the idea of the riot shield!

There is a shop at Ingoldmels, which isn't far from where I am. I'm going to pop over and have a good chat with the folks there.

Thanks for all your replies, very much appreciated.

Cheers.

There was an article I saw somewhere recently with a guy in a chair. He'd put an armour shield on the front of his chair and mounted an M249 to it! Basically turned himself into a tank

 

[tclancey]

I think turning myself into a tank is a bloody great idea, I have to try this!!

Now, having got the very basics out of the way, and visited a local shop, I think I want to go the M4 / M16 route. I shoot air rifles which give me range and this is meant to be a different discipline, something new to learn about. Ans if I'm shooting at home a shorter range isn't really a problem.

So, could you kind folks please recommend a good M4 / M16 platform? I want to go electric, I'd like the mosfet thing, a metal gearbox is a must and I would really like a good mechanical kick back, not blow back. I have to budget the gun, chargers, batteries, etc. under £400 if possible.

Thanks folks, I really do appreciate all your advice.

Cheers.

 

[ikarma70]

A g&g cm16 is a good gun, although the externals are plastic, it's really good quality plastic and very hard wearing.

The internals are the same as their top tech range and are very reliable. The combat machine range is possibly the best budget range out there and they cost around £130-150.

Then I would buy 2 or 3 7.4v lipo batteries, a good smart charger and some decent magpul spring fed magazines plus some protective gear and possibly that will leave you a few quid left over for some extra goodies or perhaps a nice pistol.

Not a fan of m4's but it is a very versatile platform and highly customisable.

 

[tclancey]

Thanks AF-UK.

Yeah, I looked at the M4/M16's as there seem to be a huge amount of options, and I am by nature a tinkering spanner monkey.

Obviously price is a governing factor, but as I've mentioned before the accuracy is the most important thing with some realism. Spending more money doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to get something more accurate, just more bells and fancy stuff, is there actually much difference in accuracy between something at £150 or something at £350? If there isn't then I can just concentrate on the other options.

Cheers.

 

[BrightCandle]

There is definitely an accuracy difference between a cheap gun and a more expensive one. Close up it doesn't matter, but those inconsistencies in air seal, hop spin and the barrel at ranges start to add up to make the BBs less accurate at ranges like 30metres. Its not just fluffy nice looks that separate the top guns from the cheap ones its also better internal parts, higher rates of fire and more accuracy.

To get the very best in accuracy some people spend many hundreds on upgrades to get the very most out of it.

 

[tclancey]

Yes, understood.

I've widened my choice of style to the M4, G36 or maybe even the Scar, so if I were to say my limit for the gun was £350 with charger and essentials, what manufacturer and model would you folks suggest?

Thanks,

Cheers.

 

[Spatch]

You will have to gain a defence of some form in order to purchase a RIF bud, not quite sure how you will get around that one but we do have a someone on here that is very gen'd up on the law and the potential ways you can obtain one

 

[Russe11]

Worth considering that you have a disadvantage in terms of mobility, so why not use the advantages you do have and take a bloody big heavy gun that would be a pain for the rest of us to carry all day.

Lets face it, in a wheelchair you are unable to be stealthy enough to be a sniper and an assault rifle gives you no advantages over able bodies players. If you can bring ridiculous firepower to the game, your team has an incentive to protect your flank as you won't be able to turn quickly. You just need a way to make your chair take the weight.

Incidentally, do you have a pic of the chair? It may help us to come up with more silly ideas

 

[Chock]

Some outdoor sites have bunkers, and even if they don't, could probably be persuaded to build one if it was helping someone who is disabled, as this would be newsworthy and massively good PR for them, and you only have to point this out and they'll almost certainly agree, as it would be free advertising. If they did that, you could easily man such a fixed position with this as an objective for the opposing side. Tool yourself up with an M60 and an M79 or some such and you'd be a badass hard as nails addition to things. And yes, you can get an M60 for less than 400 quid:

http://www.actionhobbies.co.uk/searchresults.aspx?searchterm=M60

Or you could go really mental and put a Hades 70mm airsoft mortar on your chair, or site one or two next to you (actually you could get three and still be under your budget, then you'd literally be a firebase lol). 100 metre range on that baby and it can easily fire over any cover. Get a radio and have people call in fire missions from you as they push up and pin people down, whilst you sit back and enjoy a brew well out of range of return fire, safe in the knowledge that you are getting multiple kills on people you can't even see. Three skirmishes and Bob's your uncle, you'd have a UKARA registration, not to mention that you'd be a freakin legend in the airsoft world:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1E8-ATt5Ig#t=228

 

[Russe11]

Just noticed we have a member called wheeled wonder, who has a guy in a wheelchair with a gun as his avatar. Mabe there are more airsofters in wheelchairs than we all realised?

 

[Ian_Gere]

If you are a tinkerer, as i am, fiddling with guns to get more accuracy and range is all part of the hobby. It is true that cheap guns often have very inconsistent air seal through the whole chain, from Piston Head to Inner Barrel, however it is not the case that all expensive guns have better internals, and even those that do do not always produce as much consistency as you would hope for, for the money. On the other hand, if you set up the internals well, even the cheapest original gun can proper pwn one which cost 3-5 times more.

I would suggest that your best bet then is to buy a cheap gun, disassemble it, and learn how the parts work together. Then you will see the flaws in design and/or the compromises which have been made in order to accommodate other features and start to see how you could improve on what you see in front of you. You will probably discover that someone has thought exactly that before and produced an aftermarket upgrade which deals with that problem, or that somewhere online is a tech forum in which people have/are developed/ing a bodge fix, but hey, you never know, you may come up with a better idea...

Accuracy itself is a function of two things: consistency of air seal makes the power of each shot predictable, which is important for elevation; stability of back spin is necessary so that the Magnus effect is generated vertically - if the hop up is applied to one side of the BB more than the other, the BB's trajectory will curve to that side - aha, adjust for windage you say...? Well yeah, but for accuracy that curve must be predictable, and unfortunately there are a number of ways for inconsistency to creep in, either during the contact between BB and rubber, or as the BB transits the barrel...

Some of the best ways to improve accuracy are also the cheapest and, since hardly any guns come with them as stock, should always be your first modifications:-

CT-2 Teflon Grease - slap it liberally all over the Piston Head O-Ring and make sure it evenly coats the interior of the Cylinder;

Air Seal Nozzle w/ O-Ring - smear CT-2 around the rear 1/2 of the Cylinder Head spout so that the Nozzle O-Ring gets greased but the grease does not get blasted into the hop up chamber;

PTFE Tape exterior of the Hop Up Bucking (Hop Rubber) - a few turns which then improve the seal between the Inner Barrel and Rubber - grease the outside of the Rubber/PTFE Tape so that it slides into the Hop Chamber without sticking (which can tear the Rubber)

H-Nub (also called Fishbone Spacer or Improved Cushion) - this forces the BB into the centre of the Inner Barrel and improves the left-right balance of how much hop up is applied, but is not compatible with all Hop Up Chamber designs (G36 for eg)

W-Hold Bucking - in the absence of an H-Nub a rubber with a split bump for contacting the BB goes some way towards L<>R balance of applied hop and BB centring (there is also the Falcon Dual Point Rubber, but IME it does not lift BB's heavier than 0.2g that well / CYMA stock Rubbers have this type of split as standard, but they also suffer from poor quality control, so some of them are not moulded all that well - IME a good 1 is actually better than a PDI W-Hold Bucking) - these are the way forward in A&K SVD's, G36's, and any hop unit in which there is no standard Nub.

People, as much as we may be trying to help, to be inclusive, I'm not sure that we are being as sensitive to our new mate's situation as we would no doubt wish to be - I mean yeah, mounting a heavier gun on to his chair certainly is a possibility and other people have turned chairs into armoured vehicles, but I worry that some of the suggestions above are not only very expensive builds, but also have the potential to be seen as making tclancey a figure of fun. There is no reason why he could not take part in ordinary skirmishes, with an AEG like anyone else, so long as the site was chosen for being accessible to his all terrain chair, and with the cooperation of the organisers to bring some common sense to any problems which they foresee.

Clearly, tclancey, you are never going to be front line assault material, because you will not be in a position to dive for cover when the opposition spot you, but then again, many of us, through age, lack of cardiovascular fitness, and/or infirmity, cannot keep up with the yoot. Nevertheless we still manage to have a good day in supporting fire roles, suppressing the opposition so that nippier kids can get forward and get kills over the top/round the sides of cover, being still there when a rush attack has failed allowing our side to regroup and have another crack, and of course, where we tinkering old/fat/knackered players excel, defence (when our uber guns can pick the opposition off at ranges at which their suppressing fire is ineffective).

Edit to add: guns - for an M4 get a G&G, either a bog standard Combat Machine, or one of their Intermediate range / for a G36 the JG has parts compatibility with TM which is a bonus worth having if upgrading yourself is your plan, because although the SRC is a better gun, it isn't parts compatible with any other brand - the Umarex is apparently quite good also and has electric blowback.