Buying from CRW without UKARA?

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AK47frizzle

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CRW seem to have a great stock of weapons and with all the shipping costs added up, it seems alot cheaper to buy there than uk sites.

I know that you can be gifted RIFs, but CRW can send the gun in 2 parts, so ukara is not needed.

Since sending the gun in 2 parts is technically buying separate pieces together and building them together, would it be ok for my parents to buy it and them gift me the built RIF? Or would what CRW are doing is illegal and would need for me to two tone it myself afterwards?

 
Just because they are doing it doesn't mean it's right.

You can't do it because you'd be manufacturing a RIF when you put it together.

UK shops do have a wide selection too.. and you save on not being hit with import fees.

 
Customs often hold onto half and wait to see if another half turn up too so you'd have to watch out for that.

You're under 18 so you can't buy one anyway.

 
Before they send you the gun in two pieces they will have been paid by you.so what do you do if customs sieze one or both parts?

What they are doing is probably legal just as it would be for them to ship all the pieces you need to build a gun - one bit in each parcel.

If your parents have a defence then they could buy a complete gun anyway. Without a defence they can not buy you a RIF from any online store.

 
This does bring forth an interesting (technically at least, not suggesting anyone actually tries it) question.

If the parents buy two halve of a RIF, they are not buying a complete RIF as such, so do not need a defence. It's not illegal to own, or to buy parts for, a RIF. It is only manufacturing or importing an entire RIF that would classify as illegal. Also, as it is not a RIF it is legal (by my understanding) for the parents to take money for the parts of the RIF from their son. (I don't think there is any age limit on the sale of component parts of an IF, could be wrong).

So, child has given parents money. Parents have purchased gun in several bits. Parents hand over bits of gun to child who DOES have a defence(he skirmishes regularly at a site that holds public liability insurance).

As child has the defence, he can (by my understanding) quite legally "manufacture" the RIF (similar to painting a two tone etc.).

I'm sure there's a gaping hole in my logic there, and I certainly don't suggest anyone tries it, but can anyone tell me where that hole is?

I know it's rushed legislation, and quick legislation is invariably bad legislation, but is that as much of a loophole as it looks to me?

 
ScoobySnacks said:
This does bring forth an interesting (technically at least, not suggesting anyone actually tries it) question.

If the parents buy two halve of a RIF, they are not buying a complete RIF as such, so do not need a defence. It's not illegal to own, or to buy parts for, a RIF. It is only manufacturing or importing an entire RIF that would classify as illegal. Also, as it is not a RIF it is legal (by my understanding) for the parents to take money for the parts of the RIF from their son. (I don't think there is any age limit on the sale of component parts of an IF, could be wrong).

So, child has given parents money. Parents have purchased gun in several bits. Parents hand over bits of gun to child who DOES have a defence(he skirmishes regularly at a site that holds public liability insurance).

As child has the defence, he can (by my understanding) quite legally "manufacture" the RIF (similar to painting a two tone etc.).

I'm sure there's a gaping hole in my logic there, and I certainly don't suggest anyone tries it, but can anyone tell me where that hole is?

I know it's rushed legislation, and quick legislation is invariably bad legislation, but is that as much of a loophole as it looks to me?
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No, the child does NOT have a Defence. The defence applies to anyone over the age of 18 who is a full member of an insured skirmish site. By definition a minor cannot be a full member of any skirmish site, so they cannot avail themselves of any of the specific defences to the VCRA. If AK47frizzle persists in this idea he's likely to end up with his parents being in trouble, if caught, for both importing sufficient parts to illegally manufacture a RIF and then for encouraging a minor to complete such manufacture, as well as putting the whole sport / hobby in jeopardy by giving the government an excuse to remove the defences and bring in an outright ban. Not sure he would survive the collective anger of thousands of pissed off airsofters if that happened.

 
Where does it say that you have to be over 18 years of age to be a member of a skirmish site? Also, the legislation does NOT say you have to be a member. It says that you have to be able to prove that you skirmish regularly at a site that has public liability insurance. I'm willing to concede there might well be a part of the relevant acts that I have missed, but if so could you point them out to me please.

Where in the law does it say it is illegal to import parts for RIF's?

Whilst I agree that it would be a pretty silly thing to do, I can't see how it could be actually contrary to any law, or any act of parliament. Again, I'd be pleased to be proven wrong!

The law is extremely badly written, and would appear to be riddled with loopholes. I'm not commenting on the ethical issues involved. My question was a purely theoretical one, call it a discussion starter. I'm not suggesting that someone should look for ways to circumvent the legislation. I'm merely asking people to actually take the time to read the legislation, and to learn the risks, rights and responsibilities involved!

 
The law might not state you need to be over 18 to have a defense but it does say you have to be over 18 to buy any RIF or IF, regardless of a defense.

Under 18.... Can't buy anything.

The law for buying parts counts for knowingly buying parts to assemble into a whole gun.... thus manufacturing a RIF. ILLEGAL

If you actually read through the legislation its all there

 
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Tariq, I have read the VCRA many times, and have never seen that anywhere in it. Can you tell me exactly where in the act it says it?

As I said, it's not a good idea to try and circumvent the law, or to use a loophole, I'm just interested to know whether it IS actually a loophole.

 
40 Supplying imitation firearms to minors

(1)After section 24 of the 1968 Act insert—

“24ASupplying imitation firearms to minors
(1)It is an offence for a person under the age of eighteen to purchase an imitation firearm.

(2)It is an offence to sell an imitation firearm to a person under the age of eighteen.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/40

 
Yes devastator. I'm not saying it is not illegal to supply a minor with an IF or RIF by way of sale. But is it legal for a minor to purchase a barrel for a RIF? A Trigger mech? A body? A gearbox? You see where I'm going with this?

Where does it stop being "parts" and start being an "IF" or a "RIF"?

 
You are buying the gun from crw, knowing full well they are going to split it into 2 'chunks' to send it, thus attempting to circumvent the law

Buying all the parts separately is exactly the same, you are manufacturing a rif, which whether we like it or not, without a defence is illegal

All that being said, until someone gets sent to court over this we will never know what is deemed as 'parts' and what is enough to be a 'rif'

 
I'm not buying the gun from anyone!

As there is no age limit on buying RIF parts, then the child can buy them all. They are not doing anything illegal. They can then put them together if they have a valid defence. They've not purchased an IF, and they've got a valid defence against prosecution for manufacturing.

Like I said in my first post on this, I'm not advocating doing it. It would be silly, unless you fancy being the test case. I'm mainly using it as a torch to shine a light on the ridiculousness of the regulations and legislation as it stands.

 
I can see what you are saying, it isn't written in black and white. However, I would say it is fairly common sense that if you are not allowed to purchase an IF/RIF, then simply buying all the parts and making one comes under the same umbrella. The end result is exactly the same. By getting all the parts, you have effectively purchased an IF/RIF, it just isn't assembled.

If you don't plan on assembling them, fine. Run a massive parts store, no problem. But as soon as you assemble it all, different story.

 
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And therefore it isn't a RIF/IF.

Does an airsoft barrel resemble a firearm?

Does the body resemble a firearm? (ok, in some cases this might well be a yes)

Does the trigger resemble a firearm?

The law does not say that it is prohibited to purchase the parts of a RIF. In English law, if a thing is not specifically prohibited then it is assumed to be lawful and legal. The legislation does not specifically prohibit it ergo...

 
As I said, purchasing the parts, no problem. But, all the parts assembled to make an airsoft weapon must either be an IF or an RIF, it can't be neither?

I think you have missed my point slightly..

I'm sure there are many things not written in black and white as if you tried to cover every possible circumstance of how someone could do something, you would never finish writing.

You have to include a degree of common sense and see what the final result/repercussions in it are.

 
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