40k Motors

[Hangtight]

I've been eyeing up the Tienly GT40000 motors for a new build (M100, 18:1 gears, 7.4v, 20rps) as it has come highly recommended, but I can't find one anywhere. Can anyone recommend alternatives that are equivalent to the alleged performance and efficiency of the Tienly? Or perhaps better value for money...

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Asg ultimate is a tienly rebrand.

You should get 20+rps on the 30k with those gears and an m100.

 

[Hangtight]

I get 20rps on the ASG 30k with 13:1 gears and 7.4v...

So get the ASG CNC 40k for 7.4v and 18:1 gears?

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

I get 22 to 24rps on the 30k with an m100 and 18.1.

Same set up but an m85 gives me 26ish.

Think your effiency needs sorting.

 

[Hangtight]

Just to clarify, that's 22-24 on 18:1 gears, 30k motor and 7.4v?

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Just to clarify, that's 22-24 on 18:1 gears, 30k motor and 7.4v?

Yep in a v3 gearbox all deans and silver wire.

 

[Hangtight]

Now that gives me something to aim for! What sort of current does that pull? And I take it that's a combination of shimming, lubrication...? Throw me a bone, because I thought I wasn't doing too bad, but looks like I've got a lot still to learn!

Are we talking the sort of obsessive attention to detail that includes making sure the Mosfet has the lowest possible internal resistance? And possibly unicorn farts...

 

[Sitting Duck]

ceramic bearings

if you want your gearbox to $hit itself for very little money....

http://www.dx.com/p/long-high-speed-airsoft-aeg-motor-112910#.WOvwAW8rLIU

but do not blame me if it wrecks your box...

Draws quite a few amps 22amps or more

Stuff gets warm and for some odd reason the polarity is wrong ?

The red/posi terminal is actually the negative one

Think they build the polarity wrong perhaps these are used in other installs to run other way ???

unscrew the 2 screws on both sides & rotate the terminal block 180 degrees

or just connect the wires back to front

But crazy bastid fast - probably too fast imho

only if shimming and low stress etc.... on std gears....

The words: "HOLY F*CK" come to mind when first installed

(pack an extra battery - it will get drained a bit quicker to large current draw - oh and mosfet is a must)

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

No ceramic bearings in the box with m100 just titanium bushes. Standard ICS pom piston. Only big difference is everything is titanium nitride coated. Gate nano mosfet and 7.4x 25c lipo.

I use lithium red compound in the gearbox but very sparingly. Main thing is motor height and shimming, too many people get everything slightly too tight and that creates friction. All my gearboxes have silver wire.

The m85 has ceramic bearings and lots of other stuff that is very geeky and takes too long to explain. That can only run on a 15c lipo though as it overspins badly.

 

[Sitting Duck]

You are a bit of a perfectionist though plus engineering is your forte helps

As well as you knowing your gun very well too

The rest of us are way behind fumbling our way through

trying to get the next box better than the last so-so build

 

[Hangtight]

Apart from being a pretty colour, how much benefit is there from the TiN coating? And when you say everything you mean gears, bushes and shell? I really need to find the stand for my dial gauge. Any idea of the end float on the gears?

I use Deans connectors, and I'm fussy about the quality of any soldered joints, but I was wondering about the quality of the wire pre fitted to the Fire Storm Mosfets I use.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Its a very hard surface and it reduces friction and yeah everything that moves and can be coated gets coated including the cylinder. I glue a channel into the sides of the piston as well to reduce friction there, this is a pain unless you have access to a mill to remove the material from the piston. Never actually measured the amount of play I just set by feel.

Cant comment on the quality of the firestorm as never really used them I prefer the gate nano fets. 

TiN coating isnt cheap for just odd bits unless you can go via the friend route so I wouldnt recommend it.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

You are a bit of a perfectionist though plus engineering is your forte helps

As well as you knowing your gun very well too

The rest of us are way behind fumbling our way through

trying to get the next box better than the last so-so build

Nah it just helps being in the game as if you cant do it you always know a man who can. Engineering is built on favours.

 

[Sitting Duck]

Nah it just helps being in the game as if you cant do it you always know a man who can. Engineering is built on favours.

Much like life, it isn't always what you know but also who you know I guess

 

[Hangtight]

I may have to ask a favour of a motorcycle suspension guy I know... I'm sure they won't mind a couple of extra bits tucked in with the next lot of fork legs...

 

[Hangtight]

But back to the original point, the ASG CNC 40k on 18:1 gears and 7.4v isn't a bad option? The Lonex A1 I've got running on 18:1, 7.4v, M110 runs at 20rps and pulls under 19A. As long as the ASG is capable of doing that in the same build I'm happy...but I'll certainly be looking at ways to increase the efficiency/reduce friction .

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

I have have had over spin issues with the 40 and 45k motors and usually have to use ab fets. 

 

[Sitting Duck]

Apart from being a pretty colour, how much benefit is there from the TiN coating? And when you say everything you mean gears, bushes and shell? I really need to find the stand for my dial gauge. Any idea of the end float on the gears?

I use Deans connectors, and I'm fussy about the quality of any soldered joints, but I was wondering about the quality of the wire pre fitted to the Fire Storm Mosfets I use.

You can't quite simply guess the bevel height as the gearbox shell, depth of bearings/bushings vary, the pinion/motor used and the bevels vary loads.....

the center one is going to shimmed soooooo differently to the other two

I could say aprox 0.20mm but you can't guess it so ignore even that ultra rough basic starting point

If you have a depth gauge then fix it with a magnetic mount like what Rogers uses on his workshop vice

Even then you can't simply shove the gears teeth to teeth and read off them bottoming out

You gotta take a bit off as Rogers calls it the "walk" or a bit of space or slack for gears to turn smoothly

(they don't like turning all bottoming out - you gotta cut them some slack)

I got this crude clampy thingy majig to use with grip/motor etc......

Get a measurement of the gears say about .35mm and take off about 0.15mm

BUT I have only just started using this and the 0.15mm "walk" figure is a rough guide which might be give or take 0.05mm

(depends on how firmly the bevel is pushed to mesh with pinion perhaps blah blah blah)

As Trigger said think it is more down to the shimming as a whole and each damn box varies

Certain $hit doesn't quite work as planned - sometimes some gears/bushings need changing coz they don't run silky

Pistons - f*ck me think most stuff like pistons or stuff I "think" I will use

often turns out that I'm using at least one part is being dropped for another part coz I'm not happy how it rolls in the end

For what it is worth....

Think the Fire-Storm uses Alpha Eco Wire 16awg and it is bloody good wire

(think it is Alpha 6716 wire = 16awg, 14awg is 6717 but quite thick & stiff for most installs that may need a bit of modding)

Absolutely zero joins if possible blah x 3

I like mainly bushings - usually cross but solid sometimes - especially under the gears

on top of gears I'll use a mixture of bushing/bevel how I feel or have to hand at the time

Bushings will always turn slower than bearings but "should" last longer

(except G&G bronzey bushings under gears, they wear quicker than even cheap steel ones)

So ROF will vary also depending on bushings/bearings and shimming grease blah x 4 or 5

But like most we keep learning from each build and altering stuff as to what works best for us or our toy guns

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

If I start getting out calipers and gauges its like being at work. Try to go by the feel and gut instinct as much as poss and the satisfaction when it works is much better.

 

[Sitting Duck]

only been doing this for bevel height coz I keep badly guessing it no matter what I try

the rest of the shimming I do myself by spin/roll n stuff

A v3 might be a smidge easier to judge coz of motor frame/cage

but a v2 with pistol grip and stuff is just too much for my attempts at previous judgements

Seems to have got a bit better but I've still opened a box or two up later and checked motor height

Then thought - hold up that is smidge out/low/high

So I've still swapped out say a 0.25mm shim for 0.20 or vice versa if I feel pinion is smidge out

Agree - final call nearly always go with ya gut in the end