Airsoft 2.0 (invite to join will be closed 19/10/18)

[Seth_Erebor]

Quick update. I spoke to Seth at the weekend and he's a nice chap with a clear technical input into his idea. I believe he just lacks the confidence in his own ability to present his ideas, hence his reluctance to expand on his thread. 

It sounds like a good concept, but needs some clarifying to work out whether the numbers add up. I'm not an accountant, but that may well be the function he's missing. That explains his shout out for an FD who would fulfil that function.

I'm sure he'd appreciate any help someone with the appropriate background can offer. I understand the scepticism on here, but it may turn into something we can all enjoy. It may not.

I wish him well in the world of investment and finance. 

Keep us posted Seth and good luck.

??

Yes, I am both, people do have lives before they join the police.  I am currently military police and was civilian police before that and qualified some time before that.  No, I have no interest in listening to your idea.

Intrigued but not interested?

 

[EvilMonkee]

Intrigued as to how long you can spin this out, intrigued as to what the angle is and intrigued to how long it will take before you ask people for money.  Interested, no.

 

[Seth_Erebor]

Intrigued as to how long you can spin this out, intrigued as to what the angle is and intrigued to how long it will take before you ask people for money.  Interested, no.

Well the thread seems kinda dead now, one of the meetings today is an interview for the position so I haven’t been so active here. 

I like to work with people who are both capable and passionate about what they do. 

Way back last year I had to walk away from a few investors who only wanted to pursue a crowdfunding campaign, I absolutely refused.

I am asking for money, just from no one on here haha!

 

[E21A]

View attachment 39433

 

[Seth_Erebor]

View attachment 39433

Are you offering bro? ?

 

[E21A]

View attachment 39434

 

[Rogerborg]

intrigued as to what the angle is

I'm led to believe that I guessed closest without going over.

Using airsoft guns as part of a professionally run large scale mixed arms military training exercise does makes sense.

Where I see the problem is the financial viability of setting up a business to deliver professionally run large scale mixed arms military training exercises.  It's not something that you could half arse or build up gradually, lest it get tarred as being a shoddy amateur jolly for Walts.  It would have significant up-front costs and lead time, and to get investors / lenders on board, you'd need rock solid assurance of a reliable customer and an ongoing income stream.

And I can't see who the customer for something of that scale could be except for the MoD.  Given their propensity to not procure without orders – signed in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public inquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters - I'd be surprised if you could get a commitment from them in under 5 years, or see a penny in under a decade, unless the wheels are already well greased and in motion.

Aside, I'm not sure how flogging a few more Systemas "will have a significant effect on every segment of the Airsoft industry".

I'd always encourage innovation and enterprise and wish anyone luck if they're putting their own time and money on the line.  It's the scale of the thing that concerns me: too big for the private sector, too small for the State, and with the potential for creditors or anyone working on a promise of jam tomorrow to take a huge bath on it.

However, it's a good sign that OP is looking specifically for a CFO, so please don't take this overly negatively.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[Seth_Erebor]

I'm led to believe that I guessed closest without going over.

Using airsoft guns as part of a professionally run large scale mixed arms military training exercise does makes sense.

Where I see the problem is the financial viability of setting up a business to deliver professionally run large scale mixed arms military training exercises.  It's not something that you could half arse or build up gradually, lest it get tarred as being a shoddy amateur jolly for Walts.  It would have significant up-front costs and lead time, and to get investors / lenders on board, you'd need rock solid assurance of a reliable customer and an ongoing income stream.

And I can't see who the customer for something of that scale could be except for the MoD.  Given their propensity to not procure without orders – signed in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public inquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters - I'd be surprised if you could get a commitment from them in under 5 years, or see a penny in under a decade, unless the wheels are already well greased and in motion.

Aside, I'm not sure how flogging a few more Systemas "will have a significant effect on every segment of the Airsoft industry".

I'd always encourage innovation and enterprise and wish anyone luck if they're putting their own time and money on the line.  It's the scale of the thing that concerns me: too big for the private sector, too small for the State, and with the potential for creditors or anyone working on a promise of jam tomorrow to take a huge bath on it.

However, it's a good sign that OP is looking specifically for a CFO, so please don't take this overly negatively.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I’d agree with that. 

I agree with everything you just said. 

The sales cycle for the MoD is long and so the gamble is underwritten by its recreational use. Something like that

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Given their propensity to not procure without orders – signed in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public inquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters

i see what you did there

 

[EvilMonkee]

The demand for that sort of thing from the actual military will be precisely zero as funnily enough we already have the capacity to carry out our own training ta very much with zero need to use Airsoft as a platform.  

So without further detail this looks like a complete non starter to me.  

 

[Wo1f]

All this thread has achieved is pissing off your only possible customer base, as the MOD aren’t gonna look at you twice..

 

[EvilMonkee]

'Hello MOD? Can we use your valuable equipment for our half baked Airsoft idea?  You can also use it as well. No, we have no experience in operating or maintaining it.   And you can use all our airsoft stuff at the same time despite you having loads of battle simulation kit already.  And we can run it for you despite you already having loads of training areas and experienced staff running them....no we have no back ground in doing all this....hello? Hello?"

 

[Craigmc1983]

I'm led to believe that I guessed closest without going over.

Using airsoft guns as part of a professionally run large scale mixed arms military training exercise does makes sense.

Where I see the problem is the financial viability of setting up a business to deliver professionally run large scale mixed arms military training exercises.  It's not something that you could half arse or build up gradually, lest it get tarred as being a shoddy amateur jolly for Walts.  It would have significant up-front costs and lead time, and to get investors / lenders on board, you'd need rock solid assurance of a reliable customer and an ongoing income stream.

And I can't see who the customer for something of that scale could be except for the MoD.  Given their propensity to not procure without orders – signed in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public inquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters - I'd be surprised if you could get a commitment from them in under 5 years, or see a penny in under a decade, unless the wheels are already well greased and in motion.

Aside, I'm not sure how flogging a few more Systemas "will have a significant effect on every segment of the Airsoft industry".

I'd always encourage innovation and enterprise and wish anyone luck if they're putting their own time and money on the line.  It's the scale of the thing that concerns me: too big for the private sector, too small for the State, and with the potential for creditors or anyone working on a promise of jam tomorrow to take a huge bath on it.

However, it's a good sign that OP is looking specifically for a CFO, so please don't take this overly negatively.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I had a quick skim through whilst trying to take in some training on how to give medicines management training so I may have missed a thing or two but......

......is it really an idea to supply training to the military?

Surely Airsoft would never work for that?

The guns don't have the range for realistic engagement at distance, the BBS don't fly fast enough and don't the MOD already have a laser based training system that would work at range and register hit more accurately?

 

[EvilMonkee]

I had a quick skim through whilst trying to take in some training on how to give medicines management training so I may have missed a thing or two but......

......is it really an idea to supply training to the military?

Surely Airsoft would never work for that?

The guns don't have the range for realistic engagement at distance, the BBS don't fly fast enough and don't the MOD already have a laser based training system that would work at range and register hit more accurately?

 Not to mention simunition as well.  And all the other issues I mentioned....

 

[Tackle]

This thread has understandably received a lot of negative responses, @Seth_K, you have to realise that quite literally every week or two a relative noob comes along with an idea to reinvent the airsoft "wheel", sometimes its a small technical mod that is 99 percent of the time laughed at for being absurd nonsense, & sometimes its, like yours, on a much grander scale, but possibly equally unachievable ?.

That's not to say we want your (unknown) ideas to fail, far from it, those of us who've been playing a long time, say pre vcra & further back, applaud anybody who strives to put airsoft in a positive light, BUT without quality info it just comes across as "The Apprentice" style BS with a dash of Walt-ism thrown in.

I fully agree, airsoft has enormous potential as a training tool for the likes of cqb, but has already been pointed out there are already many viable alternatives in use, so unless yours fits a much needed niche that is completely unattainable using all other current training methods, sorry to say its doomed to failure?.

If your adamant in breaking in to this industry commercially, surely a better start would be a top quality airsoft site, something that takes all the best aspects of the best known quality sites & puts them together in a unique location, again one that has features that players clamour for, think the bastard lovechild of The Mall & Combat South Woodland, with a bit of Ucap Tunnels & Urban Assault thrown in, that kinda site would be the Holy Grail for most players, if your able to get financial backing maybe its achievable ?

Good luck

Mark

P.S. for a project I once did a business plan for a regular large scale event, & to be honest the long term earning potential was very good (if done properly), so consider it & look at everything, catering sales alone have enormous possibilities. 

 

[jcheeseright]

I'm gonna throw it out there and say the MOD has zero use for an airsoft based training setup. Already have pretty effectice laser and simunition systems. 

Likewise, you're never getting your hands on in-service vehicles/aircraft/ships to use for an airsoft game, we struggle getting resources to do operational tasking let alone entertainments!  

 

[EvilMonkee]

I'm gonna throw it out there and say the MOD has zero use for an airsoft based training setup. Already have pretty effectice laser and simunition systems. 

Likewise, you're never getting your hands on in-service vehicles/aircraft/ships to use for an airsoft game, we struggle getting resources to do operational tasking let alone entertainments!  

This 1000%  Thank you for being more eloquent than me!

 

[Seth_Erebor]

This thread has understandably received a lot of negative responses, @Seth_K, you have to realise that quite literally every week or two a relative noob comes along with an idea to reinvent the airsoft "wheel", sometimes its a small technical mod that is 99 percent of the time laughed at for being absurd nonsense, & sometimes its, like yours, on a much grander scale, but possibly equally unachievable ?.

That's not to say we want your (unknown) ideas to fail, far from it, those of us who've been playing a long time, say pre vcra & further back, applaud anybody who strives to put airsoft in a positive light, BUT without quality info it just comes across as "The Apprentice" style BS with a dash of Walt-ism thrown in.

I fully agree, airsoft has enormous potential as a training tool for the likes of cqb, but has already been pointed out there are already many viable alternatives in use, so unless yours fits a much needed niche that is completely unattainable using all other current training methods, sorry to say its doomed to failure?.

If your adamant in breaking in to this industry commercially, surely a better start would be a top quality airsoft site, something that takes all the best aspects of the best known quality sites & puts them together in a unique location, again one that has features that players clamour for, think the bastard lovechild of The Mall & Combat South Woodland, with a bit of Ucap Tunnels & Urban Assault thrown in, that kinda site would be the Holy Grail for most players, if your able to get financial backing maybe its achievable ?

Good luck

Mark

P.S. for a project I once did a business plan for a regular large scale event, & to be honest the long term earning potential was very good (if done properly), so consider it & look at everything, catering sales alone have enormous possibilities. 

The lack of info from myself created a vacuum for musings on what I'm doing, those thoughts are partially based on what I've written elsewhere and I do genuinely appreciate people taking the time to do that even though I wasn't directly promoting it. The odds of this happening is low but dogged determination can count for a lot. I have found the film The Founder very inspirational, persistence being the theme.

I like the criticism and I agree that at the end of the day we all want Airsoft to do well, however, I don't have anything to show as it's all on paper. Anything I say will simply be plans and ambitions, no matter how detailed.

Airsoft has its limitations, so I will naturally focus on what it's good at and use it where appropriate.

Mark, I see it too and that is what will secure the funds because no one invests to lose money.

I am making a site, did I not mention that? Well I haven't said much of anything.

I'm gonna throw it out there and say the MOD has zero use for an airsoft based training setup. Already have pretty effectice laser and simunition systems. 

Likewise, you're never getting your hands on in-service vehicles/aircraft/ships to use for an airsoft game, we struggle getting resources to do operational tasking let alone entertainments!  




3

The demand for that sort of thing from the actual military will be precisely zero as funnily enough we already have the capacity to carry out our own training ta very much with zero need to use Airsoft as a platform.  

So without further detail this looks like a complete non starter to me.  




2

You're both right. 

So I won't be doing that specifically.

But then again, you can never tell with the military, who says everything has to make sense.

It was brought up at the Land Warfare Conference this year, I'm guessing you are connected to the Army so I assume you were there too or saw it online?

 

[EvilMonkee]

Ok, I'll bite.  How did you, as a civilian not in the MoD end up at the Land Warfare Conference or is that super secret as well?  And no, I am not a Pongo, I am Air Force.

You do have something to show - publish this 350 page paper of yours......

 

[Jedi_Master]

The lack of info from myself created a vacuum for musings on what I'm doing...

I am making a site, did I not mention that? 

If you are also thinking of opening/running an airsoft site then please make a new topic to discuss it, and to get ideas and feedback from the forum.  I would hate for it to get lost amidst this topic.