How will airsoft be affected by the EU referendum

[Sacarathe]

Well, we will miss out on common sense lawmaking:

https://www.facebook.com/UKAPU/posts/990243094421994

The parliament’s amendments make it clear that a ‘firearm’ shall not include items designed ”to only be capable of expelling a shot, bullet or projectile by the action of compressed air or other gas not generated by the action of a combusted propellant, or are designed as airsoft devices or airgun devices of any description from which only a small missile with limited energy can be discharged, provided that they can be used for the stated purpose only and are not capable of being converted in such a way as to render them capable of expelling a shot, bullet or projectile by the action of a combusted propellant;”

This is slightly out of context, nothing is final and BFGs are still in their crosshairs.

Cant find the thread which is actually about this.

 

[Tamberlin]

Honestly, being a UKIPPER you could say i was biased, but if we negotiated free trade deals with the EU which is the plan, it shouldn't really be affected, we could also get free trade deals with other countries such as japan and china etc who manufacture a lot of the airsoft stuff, which could make it cheaper!

As we've already seen, stuff has only got more expensive...

 

[proffrink]

Inflation yo. This is what happens when your currency goes down the pan (even temporarily).

The whole inflation thing isn't really an argument until a few months from now though. If we can be clever and get it back to where it should be then all will be well and good. So far that's not happened, but it's early days.

Just don't buy any airsoft stuff for a bit

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Inflation yo. This is what happens when your currency goes down the pan (even temporarily).

The whole inflation thing isn't really an argument until a few months from now though. If we can be clever and get it back to where it should be then all will be well and good. So far that's not happened, but it's early days.

Just don't buy any airsoft stuff for a bit

It will get better eventually. There are already countries talking about free trade deals with the UK and most of Europe want to keep a good trade deal so it could be a good thing a bit further down the line.A few experts are already predicting that the EU could end being the island in the rest of the world.

Let the scare mongering calm down then it can all be evaluated properly.

On the up side my M&P9's resale value went up ?

 

[Sitting Duck]

I'm sitting on a goldmine - well no just a pile of G&G's really

yeah I'm still stupid - just a bit more skint but I bought crap before the currencies went crap

 

[proffrink]

It will get better eventually. There are already countries talking about free trade deals with the UK and most of Europe want to keep a good trade deal so it could be a good thing a bit further down the line.

A few experts are already predicting that the EU could end being the island in the rest of the world.

Let the scare mongering calm down then it can all be evaluated properly.

On the up side my M&P9's resale value went up

You're right, we should wait. That's basically what I'm saying though - the markets were always going to favour the uncertainty poorly. That's just how it works. My unfortunate feeling is it's going to be a year or more until the markets go back up (or down, if we can't renegotiate).

But I'm wondering who's saying the EU might become an island? Even without us they're the 3rd or 4th largest GDP in the world so I can't see people ignoring them.

 

[Sitting Duck]

There are 9 elections & referendums coming up in the next 4 months plus elections next year across europe.....

I'm not going to go into this crap again but recent events have made some think a little more....

Junker is not quite so smug as he was 6 months ago - that is all I wish to say on the matter

 

[proffrink]

Thing is, I've heard a lot of people who're happy with doing what we did by voting to leave simply to stick it to the EU. Whether the reasons were good or not, it could just be mutually assured destruction and long term that's never going to be a clever idea. I don't know if picking out individual twats like Junker looking a little uneasy is really a significant point at all. He was never particularly well respected by any of the major players in the EU anyway because he was/is seen as inflammatory. Something we've seen confirmed recently by some of the stuff Germany has to say about him. I'd love to see him go too, but when it comes to the actual economics - the important bit of us leaving - he's a footnote.

I just hope we can sort things out, the EU gets a proper wake-up call about the way it governs and then we end up rejoining in 50 years when it's a bit better. States outside of the EU as small as ours and with as few natural resources as ours don't last long as our labour force is generally auxiliary to other industries that rely heavily on input from other countries.

The real worry right now is the cut funding to a lot of our research that's been happening and I hope the government can find the money to supplement it in some way. The UK has got by as a nation that punches way above its weight for the past 500 years because we've always been on the cutting edge of technology, and that's a factor that's been overlooked a lot during the vote. Cutting on the scale of potentially up to £1bil could see a major brain-drain as researchers seek better prospects in places like Germany and northern Europe. Hard to say right now what the long term effects will be, but the EU has already suspended a lot of new research grants in anticipation of us pulling the trigger on leaving.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

But I'm wondering who's saying the EU might become an island? Even without us they're the 3rd or 4th largest GDP in the world so I can't see people ignoring them.

Can't remember where I read it.What the basics of it was that the EU is makes it difficult for member states to broker trade agreements and that the EU wants to keep as much trade as possible within its member states to protect its own markets.

Since the referendum there has been offers of free trade or better trade deals with other countries towards the UK. Eventually lots of countries around the world will have free trade amongst themselves and this will be better for the global community. Its something that all the major players are starting to realise has to happen to keep commerce going.

Even Russia is becoming more of a global player rather than the outside nation. As the world shrinks through faster movement of goods and easier exchange of information then its better to be part of the world stage than the European union one.

More countries will leave if this works out for the UK and the union will either collapse or become more insular.

That was the general gist of it, but who really knows.

At least its showing signs that it might not be a complete disaster.

 

[proffrink]

Well see if you can dig up a link, because that's interesting.

The fact of the matter is that the larger your land mass and the proportionally smaller and more economically you can manage your money for civic services then the more money you have to spend elsewhere. It's economies of scale, plain and simple. It's the reason why I'd still be fully behind completely incorporating the EU into a single government with fair representation based on population density (i.e. we'd get a lot of representation). My argument would be that 'better communication' happens with a more homogeneous government that can more effectively rule and costs - again in proportion - less to its electorate to run.

Russia is not a good example at all of a 'global player': They're a country with some seriously, seriously troubling social issues that regularly turn businesses away from dealing with them. Like China they're oppressive and pretty corrupt, and those are not good environments for trade to be done safely and effectively. I also don't know if it's a good idea to compare the UK with places like Russia simply because they just aren't the same industry at all. We're services and high grade goods, and they specialise in raw materials; in terms of our portfolios we're just at complete other ends of the spectrum.

Right now there are no tangible signs that this hasn't been a total disaster. We're still without any significant trade deals (of course there are negotiations, but there were always going to be negotiations), we've seen our currency go into the toilet and have had research grants cut to thousands of scientists in the country.

It's too early to tell, but things are certainly not at the point of 'looking up' yet, and that's enough to stagnate our economy for years.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Everybody knew that there would be an economic downturn for a while so thats not exactly unexpected.

The research grants getting cut is crappy but again there is no guarantee that wont return as a lot of stuff that was threatened has already been back tracked.

As for Russia the point isn't that they are corrupt it's that they are slowly attempting to become part of the world stage and work with others. While there has been a lot of issues its still a step in the right direction.

Simple fact of the matter is the world has to become more cohesive and work together and best way forward for the UK is to remove the shackles so it can find its place in all this. Everybody keeps moaning about now but its where we are furtherdown the road that matters.

Europe wasn't working so it's a case of change or stagnate. Its going to be a long road and I am sure there will be hardship but no one has a crystal ball so for now people need to try and push forward and be more positive because at the moment it's more a case of roll over and die and that will improve everything wont it.

 

[proffrink]

Everybody knew, yet we still voted for it with complete uncertainty. That's not clever voting, that's just rolling the dice.

I don't understand why people think Europe wasn't working? From a social point, sure. From an economical standpoint? Absolutely not. I put my figures on the other pages, but we're a net importer and we get cheap, high quality raw materials for use in our own light manufacturing industries. We're the centre of banking for the EU as well. I hate to state it once again, but Europe is still the 2nd largest GDP on the planet; bigger than China, bigger than Russia (and bigger than the US depending on which source you go with). That is not failure. We enjoy the highest levels of democratic freedom, healthcare and education in the whole of the western world. That is not failure. We do this all whilst retaining the 5th, 6th, 9th and 10th positions on the GFP database. That's categorically not a failure.

There is still no tangible economic benefit to leaving the EU. We don't have trade agreements on the horizon with the commonwealth and we don't have raw materials that are in constant demand like Norway does. What we do have an a very, very complicated service industry that's now in pieces and may well not come back. If it shows no prospect of being repaired then we'll simply see a shift of big industry abroad, we'll see a lot of highly educated British citizens not able to get - for example - research funding in the way they had it before and going abroad.

The real issue I take with this whole thing is no one had a plan for the 'leave' side, and it's been wholly irresponsible to vote to leave without having any sort of backup plan. We don't want to to be forced into co-operation like Russia is being (because it's just not producing oil at a rate that's as competitive as it once was); we had strong co-operation and we just went "well, there're quite a few problems with it so let's just ditch all of it and try again". I just find it quite staggering that despite all the numbers available through an hour of Googling and reading, there are still people out there who think we'd be economically better-off through leaving. It's completely bonkers how anyone can think there's even a chance that we'd do better than the free trade agreement we had before. We had free access to the 2nd largest market in the world, right on our doorstep. Now we're looking at highly negotiated access to a lot of smaller markets across the world, and that's only going to cause more overheads.

Also, what're these things that were threatened that have been rolled back? As far as I can tell, things like harsh trade tariffs won't come in until article 50 is evoked, but we are seeing pre-emptive cuts because the EU doesn't want its money to end up in long-term research grants that might not benefit it.

We've also heard that continuing a free trade partnership means that we're going to have to continue to keep open borders like Norway and Switzerland. See the Open Europe article on this.

Again, it comes down to our buying power. We're only the 3rd largest country in Europe and they hold a lot more cards than us. Our light manufacturing dies a bit with out quality steel and composites from places like Germany and Eastern Europe and our banks just won't stay here if we cannot guarantee them the kind of free trading they've enjoyed before.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

The roll backs are everywhere.

Companies that said they would leave the UK are now going well actually maybe not.

Governments that were going out is out are now going maybe not.

There is a lot of knee jerk threats and reactions but lets see how much really occurs. Until article 50 happens no one really knows. Yes it was a gamble and most people went into it blind and were lied to by both groups. Its early days and I am still as clueless now as I was at the referendum but I know that no matter what I will push forward and make the best of it instead of crying in corner like some are.

Could be good could be bad but the only thing I know for sure is pdi put stupidly small windows in barrels and I am getting pissed off filing this one out.

 

[proffrink]

We should just never have gambled with this high a price. Every economic think tank has been saying "oh god please don't vote out you nonces" for a long time now. As have a lot of researchers who know their job depends on that money the EU sends them. That kind of money is paid in by countries with less ability to undertake research and redistributed to places where there are scientists who're able to make good use of it. If that money doesn't turn up from somewhere then there's no two ways about it: We'll just see a lot of very clever people emigrating.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The uncertainty can just as quickly kill us for the next 10-20 years as anything more tangible. The utterly disgraceful way in which all the leaders of 'leave' have just packed up and moved on should be indication enough that they never had a viable plan in the first place. Anyone that works in secondary or tertiary industry in the UK should be pretty worried about how their job prospects are for the next few years, because if we continue our net importing with such a weak currency, the knock-on effect is going to mean we still can't import cheap (arguably the only benefit of having a cheap currency), and the inflation will sharply increase the cost of living whilst wages stagnate.

I guess I'm just wholly disappointed in how little work people put into making a decision on this. Just speaking to a lot of people who voted to leave shows that the social issues are unjustifiably outweighing the economic ones for them. I'm sure the stay camp was no better, but the stay camp wasn't voting to tank our currency for the next year whilst we figure all of this out, so whilst morally I'd say they were just as clueless at times, I'm pretty sure this is a moot point because the ramifications of staying in were so slight in the short term.

 

[jcheeseright]

If we're looking at rolled back promises let's have a look from the other side...

XXX million a week to the NHS... Nope.

Control of our borders... Nope.

Stop sending money to the EU... Nope.

Other than losing our say and ending up paying more for access to the single market, what exactly will brexit do for us?

Oh that's right, Britain is 'different' we'll make the best of it. Why make the best of a shit situation when you can just not be in that situation in the first place? It's like cutting both your legs off and seeing the bright side as a blue badge.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

But still nobody knows anything for definite. As I said before some people say we will be worse off and some say better but in truth its early days and no one has a clue.

Both sides lied, both sides had no real plans and still don't. The only real shock is that people think getting on their high horse will change sod all, it wont.

Everyone just needs to bite down and get on with it because the worlds still spinning and we cant do sod all about it.

 

[proffrink]

Not knowing for definite is not a good enough reason to leave the 2nd largest economy in the world and ruin our currency for an indefinite amount of time with no promise of the social reform that we even wanted in exchange.

And I'm not enjoying this spin of both sides being less than honest and not having a plan and therefore one being just as bad as the other. Yes, both were guilty of bending the truth, but the onus is not on the 'remain' camp to have a fiscal plan for leaving a huge free trade agreement, so that's moot. Comparing both sides like they were equally bad as one another doesn't do justice to the gravity of one side vs. another. One was effectively to keep the status quo and the other was to make probably the largest change to a country's global standing that's ever been done by vote.

The only high horsing around here is people who think the UK is still the independent hotbed of industry that it was pre-1950s. I don't think may people truly grasp just how interwoven our economy is now with other countries. Again, we were/are only the 3rd largest economy in the EU anyway. This will shake the European Union to its core, but they'll just end up improving it or continuing on with the way it is. Having a free trade agreement that allows countries as relatively small as France, Italy and Germany to trade effectively with Russia, China and the US is going to come first every time to Brussels. There is no way on Earth these countries also throw the baby out with the bath water. Like us, they cannot afford to.

A lot of jingoisticly-tinted opinions that we'll come back bigger and stronger, and here we are still not realising that we're a net importer and therefore hold almost none of the cards.

 

[jcheeseright]

But still nobody knows anything for definite. As I said before some people say we will be worse off and some say better but in truth its early days and no one has a clue.

Both sides lied, both sides had no real plans and still don't. The only real shock is that people think getting on their high horse will change sod all, it wont.

Everyone just needs to bite down and get on with it because the worlds still spinning and we cant do sod all about it.

I'd like to point out that the remain camp didn't need a plan because had we stayed the status quo would have continued. The fact the leave campaign didn't have a plan isn't a surprise since all the people who actually understand global economics wanted to remain!

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

I'd like to point out that the remain camp didn't need a plan because had we stayed the status quo would have continued. The fact the leave campaign didn't have a plan isn't a surprise since all the people who actually understand global economics wanted to remain!

Yeah they did because there was issues with the eu and if there wasn't a referendum wouldn't have been required in the first place.
Problem being the main issues for most people were immigration and the amount we were paying in but it looks like that wont change drastically either way.

 

[proffrink]

To have the luxury of fiddling with social policy you must first have a strong economy. We dealt a powerful blow to one of those. I really hope it's worth it in the long run because the bill for immigration reform is already climbing into the billions upon billions that are haemorrhaging from the British economy (which we'll not even have the proper figures on until next year). That's assuming we even get the migration reform that Switzerland was denied and that Norway also has to comply with. That's even ignoring the fact that though free movement in the EU hasn't been perfect, it has has an overall positive effect on our economies.

The banking stimulus of £250bil that we pledged is the equivalent of 19 years of EU membership (and that's gross membership fees, which don't include the 30% which we get back from the EU in their own spending on the UK).