CQB training course

[ImTriggerHappy]

45 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

It's cromulent because shotgun certs remain shall issue here.  I got one back in the day for black powder musketry and powder storage.  As it turns out, I never even bought a bang-tube, but it was trivial to get the cert, and once you've got it, you can - quite literally - load for bear.

 

I'd venture to suggest that if we're talking systems then the Murcan Federal background check actually provides more control and gatekeeping than the UK system, if you're mentally minded and willing to play to win.  It's really more a cultural issue: our most recent mass shooter was an immigrant from the Western Colony, who viewed shooter ownership as normal rather than an aberration.

 

 

Nope sorry you are trying to claw at facts to make them fit your point. 

 

A section 1 firearms licence is far harder to get over here than a gun licence in america. Do you know how many people pass checks that shouldn't over there. Also the private sales of guns is massive loophole in the US. The fact that there are so many guns and millions of those have been sold on without checks or conveniently been misplaced means that there are a glut of weapons able to fall into the wrong hands. Do you know how many people in america own handguns for protection solely because the criminals have them so they feel the need to own one too. The failure of adequate checks and a seriously unregulated aftersale market helps create the circular logic of ownership. It is partly cultural but mainly just a vicious circle started because it is too easy for weopons to be in the hands of scumbags.

 

It is no coincidence that the country with the highest amount of guns also has the highest amount of gun related crime in the civilised world.

[Rogerborg]

18 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

A section 1 firearms licence is far harder to get over here than a gun licence in america.

 

Which is why I've been very careful to talk about shotgun certificates.  Very few people here choose to get one, but very few people couldn't.

 

 

18 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

Do you know how many people pass checks that shouldn't over there.

 

No, how many?

 

 

18 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

It is no coincidence that the country with the highest amount of guns also has the highest amount of gun related crime in the civilised world.

 

I guess that depends on whether you consider Brazil and Mexico to be civilised or savage.

 

In any case, I'm not arguing that point.  If I could Thanos-snap away all guns, everywhere, forever, I'd do it (to howls of approval from lions and tigers and bears, oh my).

 

Given that I can't, I'm more interested in a dispassionate comparison of the systems.  To be very clear, I'm not arguing in favour of the US situation, or its system.  I'm more concerned with ours, and how it demonstrably doesn't stop wrong 'uns from getting shooters.

 

It's actually surprising that more career criminals don't get their hands on shotguns here, directly or through a mule.  Perhaps they think that it's harder than it is.

[truckinthumper]

38 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

 

Nope sorry you are trying to claw at facts to make them fit your point. 

 

A section 1 firearms licence is far harder to get over here than a gun licence in america. Do you know how many people pass checks that shouldn't over there. Also the private sales of guns is massive loophole in the US. The fact that there are so many guns and millions of those have been sold on without checks or conveniently been misplaced means that there are a glut of weapons able to fall into the wrong hands. Do you know how many people in america own handguns for protection solely because the criminals have them so they feel the need to own one too. The failure of adequate checks and a seriously unregulated aftersale market helps create the circular logic of ownership. It is partly cultural but mainly just a vicious circle started because it is too easy for weopons to be in the hands of scumbags.

 

It is no coincidence that the country with the highest amount of guns also has the highest amount of gun related crime in the civilised world.

Sorry sir, but you have a lot of incorrect information here. 
1st. Our Constitution is Law. COTUS (Constitution of The United States) protects our right to arm ourselves from any Gov't intrusion.  It doe NOT grant us any Rights, it protects them. 

We also do not have any licensing requirements for ownership. We do have a background check if you are buying from an FFL (Federal Firearm Licensed Dealer). 
Not only does it check for criminal flags, but also citizenship. Which makes a LOT of sense. We do have many States that require a "permit" to carry on your person. It is technically a violation of Law (COTUS). 
Private sales are not a "loophole" it is EXACTLY how COTUS is written, so, I will say politely, you have it backwards. 

I do like how you lay out "civilized world". This is a political term that is basically saying "non poors".  We also love keeping data. For good or bad, we just keep too many records.
Far too many countries have either Gov't killing the citizens, or killing each other. In almost EVERY country, Gov't has a monopoly on violence.  Think about that.  

I will ask you to please, for all things decent, stop getting your information from the media. They are 90% liars, and our population is far too gullible to to do our own research. 

That said, do we have a gun problem, no sir. We have a really shitty legal system, along with some terrible social systems that are....how can I say..... oppressive . I dont mean racist, I mean oppressive.  We have a multi tier legal system based on social pressure. Not kidding, and it is not only sad, but infuriating. 

I dont claim to know it all, but what I do know comes from someone who, if my home was ever raided, would read like a guy ready to go to war with a small country. Funny thing is, I am a small player in the massive group of people I know, when it comes to the number of guns owned. Having 30-50,000 rounds of various ammo is a bit embarrassing to be honest. 

 I really cant beg enough (and I hate begging) PLEASE stop listening to the media. 


EDITED TO ADD: We do have a few States that have a FOID (Firearms Ownership I.D.) card, and may have you list the guns you own. 
This is also a violation of law.   


 

20 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Which is why I've been very careful to talk about shotgun certificates.  Very few people here choose to get one, but very few people couldn't.

 

 

 

No, how many?

 

 

 

I guess that depends on whether you consider Brazil and Mexico to be civilised or savage.

 

In any case, I'm not arguing that point.  If I could Thanos-snap away all guns, everywhere, forever, I'd do it (to howls of approval from lions and tigers and bears, oh my).

 

Given that I can't, I'm more interested in a dispassionate comparison of the systems.  To be very clear, I'm not arguing in favour of the US situation, or its system.  I'm more concerned with ours, and how it demonstrably doesn't stop wrong 'uns from getting shooters.

 

It's actually surprising that more career criminals don't get their hands on shotguns here, directly or through a mule.  Perhaps they think that it's harder than it is.

I like the way you think sir. 

Very level headed and honest. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by truckinthumper

[ImTriggerHappy]

56 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Which is why I've been very careful to talk about shotgun certificates.  Very few people here choose to get one, but very few people couldn't.

 

 

 

No, how many?

 

 

 

I guess that depends on whether you consider Brazil and Mexico to be civilised or savage.

 

In any case, I'm not arguing that point.  If I could Thanos-snap away all guns, everywhere, forever, I'd do it (to howls of approval from lions and tigers and bears, oh my).

 

Given that I can't, I'm more interested in a dispassionate comparison of the systems.  To be very clear, I'm not arguing in favour of the US situation, or its system.  I'm more concerned with ours, and how it demonstrably doesn't stop wrong 'uns from getting shooters.

 

It's actually surprising that more career criminals don't get their hands on shotguns here, directly or through a mule.  Perhaps they think that it's harder than it is.

 

Shotguns are not as easy to get hold of as you think there is still a lot of requirements and it takes up to 8 weeks to get licence and selling the shotgun on is not so as simple as selling a gun privately in the US.

 

https://www.sportingtargets.co.uk/shoot/the-shooting-club/applying-for-a-shotgun-licence-.aspx

 

As for how many pass the background check incorrectly which trukinthumper correctly pointed out isn't even a licence, quite a few.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna36391

 

Now I know ABC news is just another untrustworthy media outlet but there is a link there to the actual report.

 

And I dont believe everything the american media says as like all media companies they lie, but the morgues don't.

 

[Tackle]

I think one thing we're all in agreement about, whether in the UK or USA, no matter what actions our respective governments do, or are considering to do against airsofters/real steel or any other gun shaped hobby the simple truth is for those who want firearms for criminal or murderous intent, they'll get them, or in the case of the Japanese assassin, make them. 

[ImTriggerHappy]

3 minutes ago, Tackle said:

I think one thing we're all in agreement about, whether in the UK or USA, no matter what actions our respective governments do, or are considering to do against airsofters/real steel or any other gun shaped hobby the simple truth is for those who want firearms for criminal or murderous intent, they'll get them, or in the case of the Japanese assassin, make them. 

 

Agreed but some  places make it far to easy which is why some places count gun related murders in the 10s and others in the 10s of thousands.

[truckinthumper]

16 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

 

Shotguns are not as easy to get hold of as you think there is still a lot of requirements and it takes up to 8 weeks to get licence and selling the shotgun on is not so as simple as selling a gun privately in the US.

 

https://www.sportingtargets.co.uk/shoot/the-shooting-club/applying-for-a-shotgun-licence-.aspx

 

As for how many pass the background check incorrectly which trukinthumper correctly pointed out isn't even a licence, quite a few.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna36391

 

Now I know ABC news is just another untrustworthy media outlet but there is a link there to the actual report.

 

And I dont believe everything the american media says as like all media companies they lie, but the morgues don't.

 

 

Ok, I will say it again. The media lies, they are adding stuff in there to exasperate the falsities from truth. 
Of that 1 million, I will bet there is a 99.9% reason of corrupt data, incomplete data, or is a duplicate entry. 
There are more, what they call "delays", for reasons of same names, data entry errors, or something else that does not indicate a "prohibited person". 
I will provide a link to the Form 4473 that we have to fill out (with some exceptions this is not needed) at the time we purchase a firearm. 
It basically wants to know your readily available Name, age, race, etc.. Our Social Security number is one given to use at a young age, and is the ONLY thing the federal Gov't has to make us unique. Tracking . It is NOT required and some folks are tinfoil hat nervous about this, so they opt to leave it out. How many John Smith do you think exist in the USA? 
Tens of thousands. You can guess why that may cause a delay in the right circumstance. Makes sense. 

Now, we run MILLIONS of 4473/background checks per year, 2021 there were over 38 million alone. 
That is one person, with a minimum of one gun per data point. It could be 1 or 100 guns, but ONLY one person. 
To have 1 million delayed is very understandable as a margin of data point errors. More so when dealing with an incompetent govt agency. Pretty sure the UK is just as bad..LOL. 
Out of that 1 mil that very well may be a known felon? I would say one in 5 million. They are very anal about putting felons on the data records, and part of that Delay up above. They will accidently put it ON more people than NOT putting it on the ones they should. 
Before you bring up any of our more famous "mass shootings", these are failures AT A COMMUNITY level. So, the local dont give a shit if they are protecting a nut job, and those types are.....well.... you will have to do the math. 
Use this link to see total number of 4473/background checks since 1998. 
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf/view
 

CHEATER: 

Last 24 years, there were 427,444,071 BG/4473 ran. 
In the last 24 years, I dont think we have had 12 of those mass shootings. 
The ratios are something beyond my math skills , but I am sure people have a better chance of hitting the 100 million lottery than they do getting killed by a mass shooter. 
I will take those odds all day long.  As for the day to day shootings we have, well, that TOO is a local problem and not country wide. Just a small compact area where leadership fails to maintain peace.  It is very confusing to people who do not live here and I understand your sentiment, but I am happy to give you the truth. No hard feelings at all. Truth should never make one mad. 

Like I said, I HAVE to pay attention to the guns laws and news as people want to make me, and every other law abiding gun owner,  a criminal. Think about that. 
So we know the truth/facts, and love to share it.   

Link to the 4473 form
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download

If you are buying at a private sale, this is not required, but you can take the gun to an FFL and have it done there. 
Both you and the buyer would pay $25 or more each to the FFL. 
Once this is filled out, it is sent into the the FBI national criminal database (all computer driven). Within an hour it is either good , denied. Sometimes that answer can go out 24 hours.  There is also a number of days it can go unanswered before being considered "good to go".  I would like to say 5 days. I can hunt it down if you would like. 

I have a concealed carry permit, so my 4473 goes straight to the storage bin and bypasses the check. I have already been....well..... licensed to bypass that check. 
Cost me about $15 per 5 years. It also means I can pack a pistol on me as I go about my daily life. If I have on pants, I have a gun. LOL. 
Not that I am scared, but for the same reason I wear my seatbelt. Never know when it will come in handy. 

Ok, next question  
 

[clumpyedge]

8 hours ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

 

Shotguns are not as easy to get hold of as you think there is still a lot of requirements and it takes up to 8 weeks to get licence and selling the shotgun on is not so as simple as selling a gun privately in the US.

 

 

....and the rest depending which county/force you are having to deal with you could be looking at 2 years before you even get a home visit and even then you may not be granted a cert. I consider myself lucky mine was done and dusted in 5 months. Also a lot of GP's are starting to refuse to provide medical background checks (which is part of the license grant (I paid for mine to be provided privately).

 

Selling shotguns in the UK has become simpler now than it used to be now that the police have moved to an online format. Now its as simple as updating your ticket and informing the police via a website of any sold/bought shotgun (can speak for FAC). Guntrader (while having a data breach mid lockdowns) is still pretty functional in terms of sales, I actually bought a new Mossberg last year and bar the seller taking a while to sort out transfer to my local RFD it was all pretty simple but still more loops to jump through than in the US where you can literally sell via craigslist - not sure if you can still sell firearms on eBay in the US though?

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, clumpyedge said:

 

....and the rest depending which county/force you are having to deal with you could be looking at 2 years before you even get a home visit and even then you may not be granted a cert. I consider myself lucky mine was done and dusted in 5 months. Also a lot of GP's are starting to refuse to provide medical background checks (which is part of the license grant (I paid for mine to be provided privately).

 

Selling shotguns in the UK has become simpler now than it used to be now that the police have moved to an online format. Now its as simple as updating your ticket and informing the police via a website of any sold/bought shotgun (can speak for FAC). Guntrader (while having a data breach mid lockdowns) is still pretty functional in terms of sales, I actually bought a new Mossberg last year and bar the seller taking a while to sort out transfer to my local RFD it was all pretty simple but still more loops to jump through than in the US where you can literally sell via craigslist - not sure if you can still sell firearms on eBay in the US though?

 

Agreed, local Police Force makes a massive difference to time scales. Mine (Essex) is currently running at at least a six months wait.

The thing to remember about applying for a section2 (shotgun cert) is everybody in the U.K. is entitled to own a shotgun UNLESS the police can show you shouldn’t have one.

Firearms (section1) is the exact opposite, no entitlement, you need to prove you should have one

19 hours ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

 

There are only 3 pronoun sets of worth

 

1: He/him

2: She/her

3: It/fuckin really

Im not getting on a high horse about it, but gender and sex are NOT a the same. 
 

Case in point, LOTS of people attach a gender to their cars, give them names and refer to them as he/she or sometimes it. Obviously, they have no sex, but they do have a gender.

 

Personally, I don’t give a flying fuck what anybody decides to call themselves, it’s only polite to  use it, whether it’s their name or their gender, so what.

[Floperator]

It's reasonably easy to get a shotgun cert., criminal record checks notwithstanding (and social media! If they go on your FB page and it's all punisher skulls and "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" shite, then you may well get a knockback).

It's also quite easy to lose a SGC.

If you're investigated for other offenses you may well have your guns temporarily confiscated, and a conviction may well mean the temporary or permanent loss of your SGC. Not just for violent offenses either. I know a guy who lost his due to a drink driving conviction. He has it back now, about 15 years later.

Thomas Hamilton was going to have his license revoked, before one of the paedophile politicians he was procuring children for put political pressure on the local authority to return his guns....

But the overwhelming majority of the time, the licensing system works as intended.

 

Interestingly, US gun law is insanely complex and counterintuitive in comparison to the UK, and it's very easy for the generally law-abiding citizen to fall foul of the law just by e.g crossing state lines. And falling foul of those laws might earn you a serious prison sentence or a fine that will ruin you financially. The consequences are much more dire than in the UK, where you're probably looking at 5 years max for simple possession.

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

 

[truckinthumper]

58 minutes ago, DrAlexanderTobacco said:

 

They must not want us Yanks seeing your world.... LOL, got a link? 

[Adolf Hamster]

9 hours ago, truckinthumper said:

They must not want us Yanks seeing your world.... LOL, got a link? 

 

was blocked when i was looking on mobile earlier citing copyright infringement, although not on pc for some reason....

 

the title is "brass eye- american gun crime" i'm sure there's variants that the bots haven't got to yet.

[Rogerborg]

11 hours ago, DrAlexanderTobacco said:

 

 

 

Seems like this preacher might have benefitted from some CQB training.

 

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/07/25/nyc-bishop-robbed-jewelry-church/10142505002/

 

Wait, how much in jewellery?

 

[truckinthumper]

6 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

 

Seems like this preacher might have benefitted from some CQB training.

 

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/07/25/nyc-bishop-robbed-jewelry-church/10142505002/

 

Wait, how much in jewellery?

 

I saw that.... Why I dont trust  the church.
I am atheist, but have no hostilities towards any religion, but this is pure garbage. 
That 1 mil dollars would have been better off helping those in need, as the bible  states. 

So I have zero sympathy for this scam artist.