Scout Sniper Loadout

[38super]

Hi All

 

The other half has promised a new pew for my birthday 'cos I've been good.

Already got an aeg which I'm very happy with (still tinkering with it) and got a sidearm.

 

I've always wanted a Skorpion and now quite fancy a Scout sniper/Skorpion loadout as an alternative to the aeg/pistol.

 

I don't ever see myself in gillie suit hiding patiently in a bush but the occasional longer range pew could be fun.

 

Love the look of the SRS but what alternatives are out there for Scout sniper rifles?

I'm very happy to play around with upgrades if needed as teching is part of the fun for me.

Or is this just a terrible idea?

[HuttArmouries]

Vsr is generally the most popular and has the largest amount of parts support. There are versions available anywhere from the £80 jg to the several hundred pound tm and in between.

 

l96s are also fairly well supported but not to the extent of the vsrs. 

 

I personally use the ares striker as I cant stand the vsr mags. It has less parts but it makes up for it by being compatible with a lot of aeg parts. I just like it because of correct mag placement and the size of the mags. It does also have a lot of external modularity

 

The srs as far as I know needs very little work out of the box but has the price to match.

 

spring powered svd dragunovs are also kicking around but dont have many upgrades 

 

the asg m40a3 sportsline is meant to be very good for a cheap price. 

 

full disclosure ive only worked with l96s, strikers and vsrs. I dont know that much about the others. I settled on the aso2 striker though as a nice compact rifle. 

Edited May 8, 2021 by HuttArmouries

[Crazy_Crystal]

4 hours ago, 38super said:

Or is this just a terrible idea?

Not at all. I agree that teching spring or gas rifles is great fun. And a scout sniper role is actually a really fun way to play, especially if you're rolling with a small group of people.

 

@HuttArmouries has done a great summary, what I will comment on is that the TM L96/AWM and it's clones along with the VFC/ASG M40A3 have a fin type loading system that is liable to breaking or jamming.

 

Probably my top suggestions would be the SRS, VSR or Ares striker for spring or the VFC M40A5 for a gas rifle.

 

Similarly the Cyma CM700/701/702 series are worth a look at too. I think sniper mechanic did some blog posts on them too.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Crazy_Crystal

[38super]

Thanks guys.

The SRS would be top of my list because it looks awesome but 3 or 4 times the price of the others. Just about in budget if I use my existing scope and go for a JG Skorpion. The build quality looks very good.

The Striker should be the obvious choice but the original quality appears pretty poor and the small cylinder volume seems like a tricky problem to overcome.

From what I can see of the various VSR's there seems almost no point in getting a donor gun as pretty much every part will be replaced with an upgraded one although I have to start somewhere. 

I've read that the JG BAR10 is a decent one to start with.

Minimum barrel length for VSR seems to be 300mm which will still make quite it quite a bit longer than the other two.  

[HuttArmouries]

2 hours ago, 38super said:

Thanks guys.

The SRS would be top of my list because it looks awesome but 3 or 4 times the price of the others. Just about in budget if I use my existing scope and go for a JG Skorpion. The build quality looks very good.

The Striker should be the obvious choice but the original quality appears pretty poor and the small cylinder volume seems like a tricky problem to overcome.

From what I can see of the various VSR's there seems almost no point in getting a donor gun as pretty much every part will be replaced with an upgraded one although I have to start somewhere. 

I've read that the JG BAR10 is a decent one to start with.

Minimum barrel length for VSR seems to be 300mm which will still make quite it quite a bit longer than the other two.  

I will say that with the shorter strikers like the as02 and 03 the cylinder volume is not an issue but the cylinder does need replacing.

[AK47frizzle]

32 minutes ago, HuttArmouries said:

I will say that with the shorter strikers like the as02 and 03 the cylinder volume is not an issue but the cylinder does need replacing.

AS03 cylinder doesn't need to be replaced as it's already a one piece. But, it has a teardrop cut in it to reduce fps, so you have to patch it up with tape. After that, it can reach 2.3J no problem. The real issue is the bolt pull as it's really tough because it's short. I compared it to my friend's ssg24 and the difference in bolt pull strength require is insane. 

 

I'd say the cheapest sniper rifle setup that will perform is the AS03 knee capper with the action army chamber, longer barrel, and new hop rubber. I had it, and it worked quite well but the bolt pull wasn't fun for playing aggressively. If you mostly play staying still, it should be fine. I'd recommend SRS over it though.

[Skara]

No brainer choice really.

TL;DR version:

VSR

/thread

 

Extended version:

The SRS is cool, has some nice features but apart from the hefty price tag it's rather unbalanced.

The striker is absolutely ass for anything that's not a 1J build, you have zero cylinder volume to work with, it's hard to make quiet and the only sensible aftermarket parts are more expensive than the rifle (twice the price, literally).

Both guns have an open bolt, which means that the nozzle and hop chamber are exposed when the action is being cocked, which can lead to debris and all sorts of nasty shit to make its way into the cylinder/hop.

 

The good old VSR, instead, is the most versatile bolt action platform ever made.

You can turn it onto whatever you want, creeps like a motherfucker so you won't need a super stiff spring, bolt pull is light, closed bolt so nothing can really get into the internals, a metric fuckton of upgrades and parts to fit any build and any budget. Very very easy to make silent, magazines are tiny, easy to store and dirt cheap.

[38super]

5 hours ago, Skara said:

No brainer choice really.

TL;DR version:

VSR

/thread

 

Extended version:

The SRS is cool, has some nice features but apart from the hefty price tag it's rather unbalanced.

The striker is absolutely ass for anything that's not a 1J build, you have zero cylinder volume to work with, it's hard to make quiet and the only sensible aftermarket parts are more expensive than the rifle (twice the price, literally).

Both guns have an open bolt, which means that the nozzle and hop chamber are exposed when the action is being cocked, which can lead to debris and all sorts of nasty shit to make its way into the cylinder/hop.

 

The good old VSR, instead, is the most versatile bolt action platform ever made.

You can turn it onto whatever you want, creeps like a motherfucker so you won't need a super stiff spring, bolt pull is light, closed bolt so nothing can really get into the internals, a metric fuckton of upgrades and parts to fit any build and any budget. Very very easy to make silent, magazines are tiny, easy to store and dirt cheap.

 

I was afraid you were going to say that. VSR is clearly the sensible choice but the SRS is so pretty😭 especially since I watched someone fit a co2 system inside the stock 

The price of upgrades on the Striker do seem to be pretty high. 

I might as well just get an SSG10

How short can I go on the VSR?

I'm vertically challenged so probably want a shorter stock than standard anyway. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by 38super
Spelling

[Skara]

8 minutes ago, 38super said:

I might as well just get an SSG10

Saw your post on ASF.

I wouldn't trust Silicone Sword, every time I read one of his posts I get a terminal disease.

 

 

He suggested to build the gun from scratch, which could make sense if it wasn't airsoft we're talking about: tolerance issues for days and lots of fitment to be done.

Plenty of guns to choose from, my recommendation would be the Action Army T-11, out of all the possible choices imo it's the one that gives you the most bang for your buck since it already comes with some decent parts like a not so bad 90° trigger, a decent cylinder/cylinder head, a bull barrel (ideal for internal suppression), a decent hop chamber with a concave tensioner (good for R-Hops/Maple Leaf rubbers), a decent brass barrel and a more modern looking stock. For less than €200.

Please keep in mind that a 90° trigger ALONE is about €100. Also keep in mind that the vsr creeps A LOT, so you won't need a super hard spring (an m100 gives me 1.4J on 0.4s and a 300mm barrel, I also have a massive airbrake which reduces the useable cylinder volume by a wee bit).

You don't need a fancy hop chamber when you can TDC the stock one.

I built mine for under €300 not counting the parts I already had/had to replace because I'm a caveman.

 

You could get away with another base gun for cheaper, but keep in mind that you will eventually have to replace the trigger/piston (most VSRs use a 45° setup which wears out incredibly quickly once you go past 1J of muzzle energy) and in some cases the cylinder.

[Hatchet]

You could just wait and take a look at Silverback's new TAC-41. If it's built anything like the SRS it should be good and I think the RRP is looking at about $350..

[38super]

4 hours ago, Skara said:

....my recommendation would be the Action Army T-11

 

You could get away with another base gun for cheaper, but keep in mind that you will eventually have to replace the trigger/piston (most VSRs use a 45° setup which wears out incredibly quickly once you go past 1J of muzzle energy) and in some cases the cylinder.

I like the look of the T-11.  Not many around though. If I could find one in the pistol length with a full stock I think it would be great. The lack of adjustable stock could be problem if it's a bit long for my short arms. I'd be running it up to around 2.3J which hopefully it would be able to handle.

 

4 hours ago, Hatchet said:

You could just wait and take a look at Silverback's new TAC-41. If it's built anything like the SRS it should be good and I think the RRP is looking at about $350..

 

I watched a vid of the TAC-41 today. Looks nice. I wasn't sure about the odd feed system that seems to just store 19 BB's in the feed tube. I thought he was going to be able to shoot them and then he just dumped them out.

 

I'm really thinking of as compact a bolt action as possible as I see myself running with a small SMG (or full auto pistol) primary and bolt action secondary (in my dreams possibly) but I think it could be fun. Something along the lines of a bolt action version of the Vintorez would be perfect.

[Sema Dragun]

On 09/05/2021 at 06:48, 38super said:

Thanks guys.

The SRS would be top of my list because it looks awesome but 3 or 4 times the price of the others. Just about in budget if I use my existing scope and go for a JG Skorpion. The build quality looks very good.

The Striker should be the obvious choice but the original quality appears pretty poor and the small cylinder volume seems like a tricky problem to overcome.

From what I can see of the various VSR's there seems almost no point in getting a donor gun as pretty much every part will be replaced with an upgraded one although I have to start somewhere. 

I've read that the JG BAR10 is a decent one to start with.

Minimum barrel length for VSR seems to be 300mm which will still make quite it quite a bit longer than the other two.  

In this day and age, i would choose the SRS, only because you will easily spend the amount for an SRS on your VSR in the end.

 

Of course i love the VSR, but yeah mags are not game friendly if wearing gloves, but that's an easy fix.

 

SRS FTW.

 

 

[Hatchet]

The feed system is the only way to have the magazine in the "correct" place. The other way is to use a feed blade like on the TM L96, but you risk jams/scratching the bb's I guess. This one you have to preload those 19 and then use the pressure from the remaining ones to feed through. Pros and cons I guess.

 

If you need as compact as possible you're just going to have to suck it up and save the cash for the SRS. I have that and the VSR and the SRS sees all the action because it's just so convenient to be able to stick in a normal gun case (as well as the manoeuvrability in the field).

[38super]

2 hours ago, Hatchet said:

The feed system is the only way to have the magazine in the "correct" place. The other way is to use a feed blade like on the TM L96, but you risk jams/scratching the bb's I guess. This one you have to preload those 19 and then use the pressure from the remaining ones to feed through. Pros and cons I guess.

 

If you need as compact as possible you're just going to have to suck it up and save the cash for the SRS. I have that and the VSR and the SRS sees all the action because it's just so convenient to be able to stick in a normal gun case (as well as the manoeuvrability in the field).

My other half has said I can have whichever makes me happy - she's paying🙂. I'm definitely leaning towards the (less sensible?) SRS. I've used plenty of RS bolt actions and the compact size of the SRS appeals far more. I haven't handled one yet though. The weight reduction of the A2 means that they are now no heavier than anything else.

From what I've read apart from the Fasthop and M150 spring upgrades they are good to go OOB.

There's plenty of arguments for and against both but ultimately it comes down to which one do I actually want and I think just opening the box on an SRS will put a big smile on my face. 

 

 

[alxndrhll]

1 hour ago, 38super said:

My other half has said I can have whichever makes me happy - she's paying🙂. I'm definitely leaning towards the (less sensible?) SRS. I've used plenty of RS bolt actions and the compact size of the SRS appeals far more. I haven't handled one yet though. The weight reduction of the A2 means that they are now no heavier than anything else.

From what I've read apart from the Fasthop and M150 spring upgrades they are good to go OOB.

There's plenty of arguments for and against both but ultimately it comes down to which one do I actually want and I think just opening the box on an SRS will put a big smile on my face. 

 

 

 

Seems like you're narrowing it down based on the most important criteria which is simply (if budget isn't really an issue) 'which do you want more'.

 

Points worth considering in regard to the SRS which I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere in the thread (the second of which I hardly see mentioned anywhere but was a massive deal for me):

 

1) Getting used to the action for the bolt is weird, it's worth noting that if you have experience with RS bolties expect much more resistance than you're familiar with (you're compressing a spring manually after all). Alongside that bear in mind that the stronger the spring, the harder it is to compress... which can exaggerate how uncomfortable it can be to rack the bolt. The Rapax 'light pull' springs are worth considering, last I'd looked Skirmshop UK carry them.

 

2) Get some/a 'Very High' scope rings/scope mount. Failing that, take a look at risers. Unlike a more conventional 'rifle' styled boltie you're sitting pretty much flush with the rail when you cheek the pad so you'll want to bump that scope up a bit so you can get a nice picture on your scope consistently without clanging your scope with the bolt handle. The latter being a larger consideration if you start to look at aftermarket bolt handles. Obviously it'll vary based on a number of things (eyepro, face pro, your own preferences on eye relief etc) but worth considering. This is specifically something I never see mentioned with the SRS and I found it a really big deal for comfortably skirmishing with it until I found the solution which worked for me. Which was 'High' a 1 piece cantilever mount with the cantilever rear facing to get the scope closer to my eye, on a UTG riser to get it at a natural height FWIW.

 

I never found the weight to be much of an issue, granted I had an A2 and completely stripped it down to a G-Spec using a carbon fibre suppressor, but the two things I've noted above were absolutely things that were an issue and ended up taking either extra time or extra cash to solve.

 

Not intended to disuade you at all, just food for thought. I hope you're extremely happy with whatever you land on!

[38super]

49 minutes ago, alxndrhll said:

 

Seems like you're narrowing it down based on the most important criteria which is simply (if budget isn't really an issue) 'which do you want more'.

 

Points worth considering in regard to the SRS which I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere in the thread (the second of which I hardly see mentioned anywhere but was a massive deal for me):

 

1) Getting used to the action for the bolt is weird, it's worth noting that if you have experience with RS bolties expect much more resistance than you're familiar with (you're compressing a spring manually after all). Alongside that bear in mind that the stronger the spring, the harder it is to compress... which can exaggerate how uncomfortable it can be to rack the bolt. The Rapax 'light pull' springs are worth considering, last I'd looked Skirmshop UK carry them.

 

2) Get some/a 'Very High' scope rings/scope mount. Failing that, take a look at risers. Unlike a more conventional 'rifle' styled boltie you're sitting pretty much flush with the rail when you cheek the pad so you'll want to bump that scope up a bit so you can get a nice picture on your scope consistently without clanging your scope with the bolt handle. The latter being a larger consideration if you start to look at aftermarket bolt handles. Obviously it'll vary based on a number of things (eyepro, face pro, your own preferences on eye relief etc) but worth considering. This is specifically something I never see mentioned with the SRS and I found it a really big deal for comfortably skirmishing with it until I found the solution which worked for me. Which was 'High' a 1 piece cantilever mount with the cantilever rear facing to get the scope closer to my eye, on a UTG riser to get it at a natural height FWIW.

 

I never found the weight to be much of an issue, granted I had an A2 and completely stripped it down to a G-Spec using a carbon fibre suppressor, but the two things I've noted above were absolutely things that were an issue and ended up taking either extra time or extra cash to solve.

 

Not intended to disuade you at all, just food for thought. I hope you're extremely happy with whatever you land on!

Very good points. Thank you. The slick action on the VSR types is pretty much the only advantage that I see in them. The awkward action on the SRS is the only disadvantage. I've seen videos of them in use and people seem to get the hang of it although some people did make it look very awkward. I was surprised that the push bolt version was so badly received as it seems like a much more natural action. Obviously not.

I can't find anyone with the Rapax springs in stock but they're on the upgrade list as well as a few other tips I've seen to make the action smoother.

 

Scope alignment will have to be very much trial and improvement. Until I can shoulder one with my complete head-pro (helmet, goggles, mask, ear defenders) it's impossible to know. I can only hope the scope doesn't end up looking ridiculous.🤞 I was wondering if the rail on the Sport can be extended? I've already got a cantilever mount so it's a good start. 

[alxndrhll]

19 hours ago, 38super said:

Very good points. Thank you. The slick action on the VSR types is pretty much the only advantage that I see in them. The awkward action on the SRS is the only disadvantage. I've seen videos of them in use and people seem to get the hang of it although some people did make it look very awkward. I was surprised that the push bolt version was so badly received as it seems like a much more natural action. Obviously not.

I can't find anyone with the Rapax springs in stock but they're on the upgrade list as well as a few other tips I've seen to make the action smoother.

 

Scope alignment will have to be very much trial and improvement. Until I can shoulder one with my complete head-pro (helmet, goggles, mask, ear defenders) it's impossible to know. I can only hope the scope doesn't end up looking ridiculous.🤞 I was wondering if the rail on the Sport can be extended? I've already got a cantilever mount so it's a good start. 

 

I think that statement is pretty disengenuous personally, lest our bias sway the conversation away from where it is. The difference in cost isn't insignificant, and if you know what you're doing (or at the very least know which resources are, and are not trustworthy) a VSR can keep up with an SRS for much cheaper. Again, not to say you shouldn't go with the RIF you actually want... but I wouldn't worry about trying to justify it by boiling it down to statements about advantages and disadvantages.

 

They both absolutely have a place, the only thing an SRS can do which a VSR can't is be THAT quiet (without HPA'ing/CO2'ing anyway), VSRs can be made very quiet but I'm yet to hear one that's as quiet as an SRS. Though there is absolutely an arguement to be made that given MEDs you don't actually 'need' a RIF to be as quiet as the SRS can be.

 

That aside, I'm sure you could cowboy/bodge the top rail longer if you absolutely wanted to but a cantilever should be more than enough. If you're planning on running it with a helmet and ear pro I suspect you're going to wind up with that scope being on stilts, but as you say, that'll be trial and error. My post was largely there as a 'this is something you should be aware of' rather than a 'this is a definitive fix for a common problem'... if that makes any sense at all!

 

Other thing to add to the pile of things to consider is parts availability, SRS parts can be a bit of nightmare to get your hands on. I can't speak from experience but I imagine that's only become worse since Brexit/COVID. That's not to say you need a boat load of tat to throw in/on it, but I know you mentioned liking that side of things in your initial post so felt worth mentioning. (More than happy to be corrected on this if stock level issues have changed in the last 6 months). While on the subject of teching, neither RIF is particularly hard to tech on but the SRS is significantly easier to fine tune simply by the nature of how quick it is to tear down. That's not to say I think it's actually easier to work on versus a VSR, it's just more... convenient.

 

FWIW having had both my personal preference lands with the VSR, but that's largely down to how much I use the RIF. I feel much less guilty leaving the VSR in the case to use other RIFs than I did the SRS. I think the SRS is a great option for folks that are all in on 'sniping', but as a RIF for when you want to dabble the VSR is just a better fit.

Edited May 12, 2021 by alxndrhll

[38super]

I always worry about boiling things down to advantages and disadvantages, it's a flaw in my character. At this stage I would usually have a spreadsheet of pro's and con's to weigh up. I'm a bugger for missing some fatal flaw that means I end up being dissatisfied with my new toy so I've been doing a lot of reading and watching youtube. I was going to get a VZ61 as a secondary but only discovered this week that they don't have an ambidextrous safety which is a problem for a lefty.

 

I think if I was paying for it myself I would be regretfully turning to the VSR side and then I really would be starting the spreadsheet. As it is I haven't found any insurmountable problems with the SRS which means I am able to vote with my heart because I just love how it looks.

 

So on that note - SRS A2 Sport ordered today😁 along with a Fasthop and an M150 and a selection of buckings, nubs and rhop patches on their way from Faceless.

 

Now the real journey begins. Trying to get it to shoot as well as it should and learning how to use it. 

(And, of course, a whole new thread on what secondary I should get)🙄

[alxndrhll]

I wouldn’t say it’s a flaw at all, just a way of ensuring you’re comfortable with the level of information you have before doing things. I’m sure everyone has similar things, just perhaps less pronounced. Was purely raising it as a ‘if you’re going to look at advantages versus disadvantages it should probably be a bit more objective than scribbles on a napkin which sync up with your bias’.

 

As stated in my prior posts, as long as you’re happy with it that’s all that matters. You’ve picked the RIF, at least based on what you’ve said here, entirely on the fact it’s your favourite of what is currently out there... and there isn’t really a better reason for buying a RIF than that IMO 😊.

[Skara]

10 hours ago, 38super said:

learning how to use it

Such an underrated statement!

I guess the srs needs a wee bit of time to get used to due to the awkward bolt pull.

It seems that the most efficient way is to have your palm facing up rather than cosplaying a t-rex (which is something a lot of people do).

Make sure to buy-make-steal a bolt cover to avoid getting shit into the hop chamber.

 

Now though, buy a mk23

[PopRocket123]

On 10/05/2021 at 19:48, Hatchet said:

You could just wait and take a look at Silverback's new TAC-41. If it's built anything like the SRS it should be good and I think the RRP is looking at about $350..

Just looked that up and I'm sold

[38super]

3 hours ago, Skara said:

Such an underrated statement!

I guess the srs needs a wee bit of time to get used to due to the awkward bolt pull.

It seems that the most efficient way is to have your palm facing up rather than cosplaying a t-rex (which is something a lot of people do).

Make sure to buy-make-steal a bolt cover to avoid getting shit into the hop chamber.

 

 

And then there's learning how to use it well. I'm expecting quite a steep learning curve.

Fortunately I have access to a 50m indoor range for testing.

I'll look into the bolt cover thing. Some kind of flexible flap maybe?

 

3 hours ago, Skara said:

 

Now though, buy a mk23

This^^. I'll probably get one just because I want an accurate handgun but....

The MK23 seems to be the go to sidearm for your traditional sniper but I'm envisaging a more active role where I will be often be inside my MED.

I'm thinking more along the lines of a compact SMG which opens up a whole new world of possibilities.

 

Options I've considered include:-

Full auto pistol (M92R, Glock(??))

AEP Machine pistol (VZ-61, MAC-10) - underpowered? Difficult to fit a red dot.

GBB versions of the above - limited ammo capacity, expensive mags

MP5K - no stock

MP5 A5 - heavy

P90 - Cyma's are cheap

MP 7/8/9 ???

Others???

 

I'll be buying this one myself so budget does matter. Max around £200 including mags.

First thing is to get out and play with the SRS and see what actually happens in game. Expectation and reality are likely to turn out to be very different.

 

 

[Sema Dragun]

I was thinking of the different action also, but then i thought what if all bolt actions had that action years ago, and say VSR's just started to be released now?

 

I've never used one yet, but I'm sure the action would be easily over come.

 

Just picked up my vsr now and pictured the bolt being further back and realised it wouldn't be that bad, would take a little longer to reach the trigger compared to a vsr though.

 

I know i would like to buy one when i travel overseas for an event.

[38super]

2 hours ago, Sema Dragun said:

I was thinking of the different action also, but then i thought what if all bolt actions had that action years ago, and say VSR's just started to be released now?

 

I've never used one yet, but I'm sure the action would be easily over come.

 

Just picked up my vsr now and pictured the bolt being further back and realised it wouldn't be that bad, would take a little longer to reach the trigger compared to a vsr though.

 

I know i would like to buy one when i travel overseas for an event.

 

The action is not as slick as a VSR style bolt action. I won't be doing a 'mad minute' with it but I've got used to it fairly easily. Having said that mine is only pushing 1.5 joules. When the Rapax 2+ spring goes in I might feel differently.

[Sema Dragun]

On 13/05/2021 at 19:56, 38super said:

 

The MK23 seems to be the go to sidearm for your traditional sniper but I'm envisaging a more active role where I will be often be inside my MED.

I'm thinking more along the lines of a compact SMG which opens up a whole new world of possibilities.

 

Options I've considered include:-

Full auto pistol (M92R, Glock(??))

AEP Machine pistol (VZ-61, MAC-10) - underpowered? Difficult to fit a red dot.

GBB versions of the above - limited ammo capacity, expensive mags

MP5K - no stock

MP5 A5 - heavy

P90 - Cyma's are cheap

MP 7/8/9 ???

Others???

I like the MK23, being a NBB your not wasting gas on the slide action, so maybe a little more performance?

 

I like the new (ActionArmy) AAP01 Assassin Pistol, wouldn't mind one of those for a secondary.

 

I like the MP5K also one of those with a hi-cap mag would be great fun.

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Sema Dragun
something i cant delete from this post i stuffed up had a few vodkas sorry