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Raptor Mp443 Grach Support Group


kasaran
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A thread for those who wanted a modern Russian sidearm, but have only the option of Raptors’ first foray into GBB pistols.

 

photo_2021-04-14_16-48-08.thumb.jpg.8383b479571aa09848716deb30d47e81.jpg

 

On receipt mine looked well and truly greased with some sort of thick lubricant which covered all the parts.  I assume this is for transportation, as the slide, although covered in slime, did not rack easy at all.
The stiff slide seems to be more of an issue caused by tolerances.  There is next to no wobble in the slide, it is very much pinched between the runners.  I found that racking it by hand for a while loosens it a little.  This could be a case where it needs to bed in, but it does not take long for the silicon oil to be blasted out and have the slide jam once again.  I wish I looked at the runners of the slide before firing the gnu, but it almost like there are chips of metal missing from it, but this could be from manufacturing though.

 

photo_2021-04-14_16-48-18.thumb.jpg.8ddf1231e7058f38670b7fcd48458800.jpg


As for blowing back, the cylinder doesn’t fully reset, the springs are far too weak and the fitment far too tight.  This is evident by the back-blast of gas you get when firing.  It does seem to move enough to cycle bb’s though (only when the slide has enough strength to get past its own friction however).  A thread on arnies goes through a fix for this in some detail (https://arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/218851-raptor-mp-443-pya-grach/).  Overall, I think this guy had a better model than mine, but his solution on swapping the O-ring from within this part seems hopeful.  His measurements of 15mmODx1.8mmCS 70D are mentioned and I have 10 of these en-route from china off eBay as linked by @Iceni.  Due mid may, I will update if there is an improvement.


The trigger pull is long.  The reset and break point are both in the last 3mm of trigger pull.  This seems an odd decision, possibly this was done to speed up development or to simplify the design?  The safety is horribly stiff.  It works, but with the stiffness and the trigger pull being so long, I can’t imagine I would ever use the safety, especially as you need to manually cock it.


The magazines were equally slimy, two of which holding a tiny amount of gas on delivery.  It has taken basically a whole Ultrair 570ml bottle of gas to refill and fire out to A) clear the gunk from inside and B) get the seals to bed in.  The mist that fired out was immense, can only describe it as a teenager’s vape pen cloud.  Once that settled down, they generally seemed to hold with all three of my mags managing to hold enough gas and fire over 25 times this morning, around 18 hours after filling.  Though on one you could just about hear a slow leak from the refill valve, a thing that had stopped by the morning, I guess it self-righted or the pressure settled.


The magazines though I think suffer BADLY from freezing.  The top valve always seem to leak for a short while after firing only a couple of shots (not from the nipple part).  If you fire too many and it risks venting.  Nuprol 4.0 black gas just instantly vents on the first trigger pull.  I have ordered a valve key thing from firesupport to see if they need a tighten or not, but this seems to be a definite weak spot in the design.


The paintwork on the gnu is thin, and it doesn’t take long for scratches to show.  This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, just something to be aware of.


Sadly, I lack a chrono or a big garden, so I cannot report on fps or range.  It does fire bb’s but with that extra strain it fires maybe 18 of them before the slide gets stuck half way.  I am very tempted to take a file to the runners, but that is very much a last ditched effort to get it reliable.  

 

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yeah that was the arnies link i was on about.

 

out of interest, when you have yours apart to change the o-ring might be interesting to see if the piston head has any vents?

 

if not, a possible modification there to get a good seal without a super tight o-ring, i have something similar going on in the makarov and it works surprisingly well (as in it'll cycle on noticably low amounts of gas)

 

damnit, this is making me want to get one again.....

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33 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

yeah that was the arnies link i was on about.

 

out of interest, when you have yours apart to change the o-ring might be interesting to see if the piston head has any vents?

 

if not, a possible modification there to get a good seal without a super tight o-ring, i have something similar going on in the makarov and it works surprisingly well (as in it'll cycle on noticably low amounts of gas)

 

damnit, this is making me want to get one again.....

 

Piston is a solid piece. Had it fully appart yesterday.  Well except for the trigger assembly 

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If you want to file the slide I can recommend the Tamiya 3000 grit sanding sponge. It's a fine abrasive on a tough but flexible sponge. You can work it in a lot of different ways round a slide to just knock off and polish up without worrying about removing or scuffing the surfaces.

https://www.wonderlandmodels.com/products/tamiya-sanding-sponge-sheet-3000-grit/

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36 minutes ago, kasaran said:

 

Piston is a solid piece. Had it fully appart yesterday.  Well except for the trigger assembly 

 

a possibility then, although without seeing one in the flesh not sure how feasable taking a drill to it would be.

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1 minute ago, Adolf Hamster said:

sure how feasable taking a drill to it would be.

I can't comment about the drilling, I don't know the platform.

But for the actual drilling if you needed to do it - M35 cobalt drill bits. You can get them in machine mart for about £25 for a set. Use the clutch on the drill rather than drill mode because they snap like carrots due to been a very hard steel and you need to keep the drill bit in the same orientation for the same reason ( no wiggling about).

That been said they drill just about every common metal including 316 stainless. The set I have is used daily at work and they pay for themself if you can use them without snapping them. Far better than HSS or coated drills.

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/cht383-19pce-cobalt-steel-drill-bit-se/

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8 minutes ago, Iceni said:

I can't comment about the drilling, I don't know the platform.

 

i'm the same, i'm kinda just spitballing ideas based on the photo's of how it's setup.

 

also kind of curious how the hop is setup (read is maple leaf an option?) as that's pretty much all i'd tend to be looking for in terms of mods.

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8 hours ago, Iceni said:

If you want to file the slide I can recommend the Tamiya 3000 grit sanding sponge. It's a fine abrasive on a tough but flexible sponge. You can work it in a lot of different ways round a slide to just knock off and polish up without worrying about removing or scuffing the surfaces.

https://www.wonderlandmodels.com/products/tamiya-sanding-sponge-sheet-3000-grit/

 

Will bare in mind.  Im not going to tinker any more until i fit the replacement o-ring.  But i think it would help the slide move more freely.

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Such a shame it doesnt seem to be very good on first look.  We Russian enthusiasts badly need a well made decent handgun.  TM preferably....

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24 minutes ago, EvilMonkee said:

We Russian enthusiasts badly need a well made decent handgun.  TM preferably....

 

*triggered*.......

 

granted it doesn't do so well in the cold, but the WE makarov is a damn fine gat otherwise.

 

although the options are decidedly thin for anything adopted post 1950......

 

i mean is it too much to ask for a gsh-18?

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  • 2 weeks later...

New O-rings arrived (3 weeks early from china, it wasnt through UPS).

 

Fitted fine, and fires much better.  the old o-ring as said in the linked review is just a bit too big, it forced gas out the back of the slide to the point you could feel it on your hand when firing.  now though, this effect is much lessened.

 

I have also removed the rocket valve from the top of the mag which leaked after firing.  lubed up the seals and refitted. it now holds black gas and ultrair without issue.  all mags, without firing have held gas for the last couple of weeks too.

 

The gun however still has slide issues, it rarely goes far enough back to lock on empty (though does go far enough to cycle)  and every now and then it jams.  the only solution i can think of is to sand down the runners ever so slightly, as that i think that is the cause.  nervous to do though, never done that before and i dont want to make it worse xD. 

 

Open to suggestions to why else the slide would jam up after firing?  Its swimming in lubrication at this point.  i love the look and feel of the thing to give up on it just yet

 

I have another 9 of the aftermarket O-rings, if anyone else also wanted to do this swap.

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I think i have found one possible cause of the jams.  Its the hammer.  The return spring isnt quite up to pulling it back everytime.

 

Would there be an issue in filing down this corner in the hammer? Its already showing wear.

16193412524361015071827.jpg

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Hmm ive seen that before, 1911's that happens when the sear has worn.

 

Shouldnt be any issue rounding off that edge although it might be of limited help

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  • 2 months later...

Right. Had two game days with it.  Unfortunately i the piston head still vents on firing.  Resulting in poor efficiency, only one of the mags managing to fully empty.  

 

The other two mags seem to suffer some icing issues(?).  You fire and they have a quiet temporary gas leak before sealing itself again.

 

Secondly. My one good mag seems to fire the best.  The others for some unfathomable reason seeming to not hop/come out with as much power behind it.

 

Have had some kills with it running with my SVD yesterday.  And it is satisfying to hold.  Just still needs some tinkering 

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  • 1 month later...

Follow up.  experimenting with different recoil springs, the TM P226-e2 recoil spring seems to fix the slide locking back on empty.  still debating if i should whittle a little more off the innards for a smoother reset. 

 

still hit or miss with the piston head venting

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  • 1 month later...

I feel like i might have been the only purchaser of this pew, but a V3 version of the grach has been released with a whole new gas block designed to work in colder areas.  they have also released an upgrade kit for those who have the earlier model.

 

I ordered a set for myself and now i no longer see gas blowing out of the cylinder when firing, increaseing gas efficiency.  slight fps increase too (5)  but hey, now it will much more reliably empty a whole mag.  they even have a new trigger bar if you wanna pull the trigger forward. not fitted on mine as i can live with that and i dont feel confident taking that bit appart.

 

I also fitted the old spring back in for now as it seems to lock back more reliably, but not 100% as it does with the weaker TM spring (im concerned the weaker spring may damage the slide by cushioning it less).

 

either way, £20 made it more skirmishable.

 

https://www.airsoftworld.net/raptor-airsoft-grach-mp-443-v3-upgrade-kit.html

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 23/10/2021 at 18:05, kasaran said:

I feel like i might have been the only purchaser of this pew, but a V3 version of the grach has been released with a whole new gas block designed to work in colder areas.  they have also released an upgrade kit for those who have the earlier model.

 

I ordered a set for myself and now i no longer see gas blowing out of the cylinder when firing, increaseing gas efficiency.  slight fps increase too (5)  but hey, now it will much more reliably empty a whole mag.  they even have a new trigger bar if you wanna pull the trigger forward. not fitted on mine as i can live with that and i dont feel confident taking that bit appart.

 

I also fitted the old spring back in for now as it seems to lock back more reliably, but not 100% as it does with the weaker TM spring (im concerned the weaker spring may damage the slide by cushioning it less).

 

either way, £20 made it more skirmishable.

 

https://www.airsoftworld.net/raptor-airsoft-grach-mp-443-v3-upgrade-kit.html

 

Cheers for keeping us updated. 

 

I am still weighing up between a Grach and WE Makarov. Most of my kits pre-date the Grach by at least a decade, so not sure whether to go for it or not. 

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  • 5 months later...

Hey @kasaran how's the V3 holding up after a few months? How does it shoot generally? I'm looking at getting one now that it seems to have reasonable performance. 

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It's going. Not quite TM performance, but certainly adequate for a secondary.  May even be more reliable than my kjw g17 with the mysteriously jamming slide... 

 

It Will go through a magazine (providing the magazine valves behave), accuracy is alright and range is good enough for engagement limitations for when pushed using my SVD.

 

Are you aware of raptor's Facebook page?  It's likely heavy trolling in part, but reviews from others are not amazing for it.  Might be a lot of lemons out there.  But for grach, there are no other options.  Still like the way it sits in my hand though

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 Thanks for the update. Maybe if I get a bonus this year or something 😂 As much as I want one, £170 for an okay but potentially poorly working gun is a bit steep.

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