The Cardinal Airsoft Sin....

[Tommikka]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

 

 

You spend the whole day not just looking for the other team's tape, but very very carefully avoiding shooting at anyone without tape, then suddenly you have to make a split second guess if the untaped guy with a pistol who's just walked around the corner looking the other way is a marshal or a third-team player.

 

 

That’s a peeve of mine.

 

Personally I prefer:

Dress styles - camo / non camo etc

(But someone always can’t comply and wears a DPM vest when they aren’t on the DPM team - in that example we just pointed him out to both teams and they all just looked out for him to shoot anyway)

 

Taping both arms:

You can see if they are blue or red, rather than hesitating to see the best angle

(This takes up double the amount of tape or armbands, and people try to get away with one

If doing tape / no tape then the tape need to be on both arms)

Taping one team on the left, one on the right 

eg Blue left arm or blank right arm is friendly

Blank left arm or red right arm is the enemy 

(People don’t listen / don’t comply)

 

 

Ive been to games with disposable paper arm bands - when hit you rip off the armband, medics carry a stash or you pick up another at respawn

Scoring then included the number of armbands handed over, less any returned unused by the faction leaders at the end

[BigStew]

On 16/07/2020 at 13:14, Cr0-Magnon said:

More-so than not taking your hits, surely physically interfering with someone is a bigger sin?

 

 

After 20 years of playing that seriously didn't occur to me as something that happens.

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Tommikka said:

Taping both arms:

 

I was surprised to discover some sites don't do this.  I guess it's not quite as important in woodland where you've got a general idea that the enemy is over yonder.  In a maze-like CQB though, milliseconds count.  Heck, I'd like to see upper arms, wrists and headbands.

 

But untaped, urgh, no, just no.

 

 

Quote

Ive been to games with disposable paper arm bands - when hit you rip off the armband, medics carry a stash or you pick up another at respawn

Scoring then included the number of armbands handed over, less any returned unused by the faction leaders at the end

 

Yup, I like that.  I did a great filmsim where I played as a medic using little carabineers that we clipped on to dead players, then the whole squad respawned when we ran out.  I thought it worked really well and added proper incentive to play as a squad, with some fun times crawling through the mud and clipping them onto folks' bootlaces.  They dropped it though for the next 'sim, I don't know whether it was on cost grounds or if players bawwed about it.  Shame, I thought it was great, and I'm still using some leftovers as sling mounts.

 

[Tackle]

Talking of taped arms & player ID, flicking around on the net it occurred to me that seeing as more than half (if not more ?) of the worlds armies are now sporting variants of multicam/mtp etc, if there was another major conflict, gonna be a potential nightmare to ID the enemy in poor light etc ?.

[Groot]

Non hit takers are a given... So in no particular order. Fuck me, they get my goat.

Asshole geardos who turn up and take it way too seriously. Then scream like girls when people on their side aren't doing the pepperpot manoeuvre correctly or some other military bollocks they think they know after seeing it on Strike Back/Ultimate Force.
You know and we know that the closest to the military they got was being a Cub Scout. Assholes 

People who turn up to woodland games in all black gear and wear woolly balaclavas and full face masks.
Because protection from pain maybe? ( wimps ) ..
2 reasons.

1) Black in Woodland is stupid and i don't like stupid people 

2) They are going to pass out from heat exhaustion and potentially cause an interruption to my games. 

 

Snipers in so much ghillie that they cannot feel ( or choose not to from recent experience ) because either we their kit is so thick they honestly cannot feel it ( unlikely with the amount i dumped into them ) or the twigs in the way of the bb path make the hits count as ricochets. 

 

People who count being behind a bush as a magic shield because the bbs might hit a few twigs on the way through. Thus technically being a ricochet. Even while flinching from the hits. 

Sites without a clear bang rule. If you get the drop on someone and you don't want to put a bb into their face.

There should be a site rule, not one down to player discretion as to whether they take it or not. 
Now i know some people are stupid and take the bang rule too far, like running into a room shouting bang lots and expecting everyone to go "yep you got us"
But not to have a bang rule, i think is wrong.
I will happily shoot people in the face but i want the option of not having too. 

 

Lastly

People who wear drop-leg holsters like this 

 

Ah yes, the tactical knee holster 

 

[PopRocket123]

36 minutes ago, Groot said:

Non hit takers are a given... So in no particular order. Fuck me, they get my goat.

Asshole geardos who turn up and take it way too seriously. Then scream like girls when people on their side aren't doing the pepperpot manoeuvre correctly or some other military bollocks they think they know after seeing it on Strike Back/Ultimate Force.
You know and we know that the closest to the military they got was being a Cub Scout. Assholes 

People who turn up to woodland games in all black gear and wear woolly balaclavas and full face masks.
Because protection from pain maybe? ( wimps ) ..
2 reasons.

1) Black in Woodland is stupid and i don't like stupid people 

2) They are going to pass out from heat exhaustion and potentially cause an interruption to my games. 

 

Snipers in so much ghillie that they cannot feel ( or choose not to from recent experience ) because either we their kit is so thick they honestly cannot feel it ( unlikely with the amount i dumped into them ) or the twigs in the way of the bb path make the hits count as ricochets. 

 

People who count being behind a bush as a magic shield because the bbs might hit a few twigs on the way through. Thus technically being a ricochet. Even while flinching from the hits. 

Sites without a clear bang rule. If you get the drop on someone and you don't want to put a bb into their face.

There should be a site rule, not one down to player discretion as to whether they take it or not. 
Now i know some people are stupid and take the bang rule too far, like running into a room shouting bang lots and expecting everyone to go "yep you got us"
But not to have a bang rule, i think is wrong.
I will happily shoot people in the face but i want the option of not having too. 

 

Lastly

People who wear drop-leg holsters like this 

 

Ah yes, the tactical knee holster 

 

Personally, I prefer no bang rule. It's far less messy in terms of who hit who and if you've got the drop on someone you probably have a chance to aim somewhere soft like the arse or leg. 

 

I agree with the ridiculously low drop legs though. And if we're getting into equipment sins, this ugly thing. It comes with every cheap scope and short dot and it's just hideous. It's bulky, heavy and lumpy and why the fuck does it have so many rails?

[Groot]

3 minutes ago, PopRocket123 said:

Personally, I prefer no bang rule. It's far less messy in terms of who hit who and if you've got the drop on someone you probably have a chance to aim somewhere soft like the arse or leg. 

 

I agree with the ridiculously low drop legs though. And if we're getting into equipment sins, this ugly thing. It comes with every cheap scope and short dot and it's just hideous. It's bulky, heavy and lumpy and why the fuck does it have so many rails?

Because 

 

[Cr0-Magnon]

11 minutes ago, PopRocket123 said:

Personally, I prefer no bang rule. It's far less messy in terms of who hit who and if you've got the drop on someone you probably have a chance to aim somewhere soft like the arse or leg.

 

The bang rule makes total sense in "I've got the drop on you" situations. However of course it invariably gets misused and therefore should be discarded. Firsthand I witnessed a guy whose AK wasn't working, run in to a room with 6-7 people in it and shout "bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang" really quickly. Of course his "finger gun" having the best rate of fire, accuracy and reliability, managed to take them all out before they'd fired back (with actual airsoft BB's). Plus in one of these toxic American CQB videos on youtube, there was a guy who was practically in tears because he'd used the bang rule against someone in a window about 30 metres away and they hadn't taken it. 

[PopRocket123]

9 minutes ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

 

The bang rule makes total sense in "I've got the drop on you" situations. However of course it invariably gets misused and therefore should be discarded. Firsthand I witnessed a guy whose AK wasn't working, run in to a room with 6-7 people in it and shout "bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang" really quickly. Of course his "finger gun" having the best rate of fire, accuracy and reliability, managed to take them all out before they'd fired back (with actual airsoft BB's). Plus in one of these toxic American CQB videos on youtube, there was a guy who was practically in tears because he'd used the bang rule against someone in a window about 30 metres away and they hadn't taken it. 

I don't see the point of it. The whole point of airsoft is that getting shot at that range hurts but it's ultimately safe. I feel it should be the responsibility of the individual to wear as much or as little PPE as they feel they need (not including eye pro), not the responsibility of the person shooting to be worrying about hurting the person they're shooting. This does not mean I agree with overshooting or shooting hot as those are outside of the rules and are intended to hurt people. 

[Cr0-Magnon]

9 minutes ago, PopRocket123 said:

I don't see the point of it. The whole point of airsoft is that getting shot at that range hurts but it's ultimately safe. I feel it should be the responsibility of the individual to wear as much or as little PPE as they feel they need (not including eye pro), not the responsibility of the person shooting to be worrying about hurting the person they're shooting. This does not mean I agree with overshooting or shooting hot as those are outside of the rules and are intended to hurt people. 

 

One BB to the back of their plate carrier or on their arse isn't going to mortally wound anyone. I guess I was referring to "in a perfect world" and when someone comes round the corner and is able to point their RIF directly at someone's head etc.... but fully accept that people misuse use it, so it's not worth the bother.

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Groot said:

But not to have a bang rule, i think is wrong.
I will happily shoot people in the face but i want the option of not having too.

 

You always have the option to do the decent thing and not money-shot them.  And they have the option to do the decent thing and reward your decency by calling themselves out, even if site rules are "no bang, just shoot".

 

We all rely on each other to play decently all the time anyway, since a rule doesn't actually stop anyone from face-shooting, blind-firing or over-killing.  That's down to the finger on the trigger.

[RonLancs]

One of my peeves is just that, not a cardinal sin.
 

Regular players “camping” or going out of bounds to “camp” or bending rules to get the drop on newer players.
 

Sure it’s fun to just sit and look down your sight and mass a huge kill count.. not.. it’s boring man. They’re the types of players who play search and destroy on COD and would rather camp than go for the flag and loose the game - the fear of getting hit by new players. Poor form. 

[Groot]

Hmm my experience of it is slightly different.

I am by nature very sneaky and did do lots of building based games.

One of the sites had a bang rule and when I would get the drop on someone and have only their face as a target, I could polite mention bang. They would go, Oh shit, nice one. Hand up and go. 

Then at another event run by a group that didn't do bang rule. It was CHD, point my rifle on the legal limit and running .25s, as at CHD range is king.

I had my barrel pointed up at gap between the stairs up, ready to pop a foot or shin. When the guy upstairs, leaned over, upside-down and was about to look through the top rung to shoot his pistol down. ( Quite the position )
He ended up looking at my barrel. I said "bang". He told me to fuck off, while still looking at my barrel and went back out of view.

I am an asshole but even he didn't deserve to get shot like that.

I then called up and said,  "Dude i could have melted your face, you not going to take that?". He called back, "tough luck, there is no bang rule here." 

Purely situational, Yes.. but having a sensible rule out ways the chumps who have mythical finger guns. 

 

Obviously, we then put so much pyro up the stairs he probably has tinnitus now and then following them up aggressively, full auto and made him scream so much he complained about us. 

Ah well, he rolled the dice. 

[Adolf Hamster]

 

45 minutes ago, PopRocket123 said:

so many rails?

 

i have something similar in style, but only top rails  which i do have a wee rds on.

 

the spirit level is a bit ridiculous though, looks cool until you realise you can't see it when the scope is installed.....

 

37 minutes ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

 

The bang rule makes total sense in "I've got the drop on you" situations. However of course it invariably gets misused and therefore should be discarded. Firsthand I witnessed a guy whose AK wasn't working, run in to a room with 6-7 people in it and shout "bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang" really quickly. Of course his "finger gun" having the best rate of fire, accuracy and reliability, managed to take them all out before they'd fired back (with actual airsoft BB's). Plus in one of these toxic American CQB videos on youtube, there was a guy who was practically in tears because he'd used the bang rule against someone in a window about 30 metres away and they hadn't taken it. 

 

i always look at it as purely courtesy, if someone is able to fire back and hit you before you can hit them then it wasn't a valid bang kill to begin with.

 

last time i gave a bang kill it was a case of literally having the barrel of the makarov against the guys shoulder....

 

10 minutes ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

 

One BB to the back of their plate carrier or on their arse isn't going to mortally wound anyone. I guess I was referring to "in a perfect world" and when someone comes round the corner and is able to point their RIF directly at someone's head etc.... but fully accept that people misuse use it, so it's not worth the bother.

 

it's a good middle ground, last game had the drop on the fella and planted one in the back of his plate carrier, apparently that wasn't felt or heard so next shot was in the leg and was noticed.

[trojan1106]

Worst sins? There are things that annoy me - 

1. Deliberate non hit-taking. Happy to give benefit of the doubt, but there is a limit

2. Not listening to the game briefs & rules. You're wasting everyone's time, and potentially spoiling the games

3. Overkill, shooting to wound. It's cowardly, and I don't care if you rely on hits your youtube channel, you're a twat

4. Conduct not becoming. I heard this a long time ago - don't be a dick. Courtesy doesn't cost anybody, anything.

Not really annoying, but laughable?

5. I was at a site years ago, and we were all asked to stand, witness & applaud someone being 'promoted' in their team, using military ranks. I'm old, overweight and running around woods with toy guns - how seriously do you think I'm taking all this?

[Rogerborg]

3 minutes ago, Groot said:

He ended up looking at my barrel. I said "bang". He told me to fuck off, while still looking at my barrel and went back out of view.

 

Then he's a dick, but he'd be a dick whether there's a bang rule or not.  You did the right thing, which is all you're responsible for.

 

I am really looking forward to sites being numbers-limited, heavily over subscribed, and in a position to castrate dicks and invite them to leave the site and not come back.

 

[Tackle]

I'm ok with the bang rule & obviously understand the parameters which it's applicable to, unfortunately many don't & either spit their dummy out or go all "cool hand Luke" on you lol, usually resulting in me shooting them from up close, which is exactly what I wanted to avoid ffs.

generally it works on sites with a long established bang & a regular clientele, only exception being when new players turn up, yak all through the briefing & then claim mid game "we don't do that at my regular site", which we all know what the usual response is 😏

[Adolf Hamster]

4 minutes ago, Groot said:

I am an asshole but even he didn't deserve to get shot like that.

 

i must be more of an asshole then, i'd have let fly.

 

it's a divisive issue, hence my policy of being a twitch away from firing before i open my mouth to issue a bang kill.

 

in that case he made the decision, it's as close as you're gonna get to someone literally asking to be shot.

 

on the flipside, i also don't get salty if someone decides to skip the whole process and just pop one round somewhere it doesn't hurt.

 

3 minutes ago, Tackle said:

"we don't do that at my regular site", which we all know what the usual response is 😏

 

the worse case i heard of that was someone losing the rag because "headshots don't count".....

[Cr0-Magnon]

3 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

the worse case i heard of that was someone losing the rag because "headshots don't count".....

 

That's a strange one. I heard "It doesn't make sense that you have to call out if you get hit on the arm or leg, because you wouldn't die from that in real life"

 

There was silly ol' me thinking this was real life and we were participating in a hobby/sport/game!

 

[Tommikka]

17 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

i must be more of an asshole then, i'd have let fly.

 

it's a divisive issue, hence my policy of being a twitch away from firing before i open my mouth to issue a bang kill.

 

in that case he made the decision, it's as close as you're gonna get to someone literally asking to be shot.

 

on the flipside, i also don't get salty if someone decides to skip the whole process and just pop one round somewhere it doesn't hurt.

 

 

the worse case i heard of that was someone losing the rag because "headshots don't count".....

 

11 minutes ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

 

That's a strange one. I heard "It doesn't make sense that you have to call out if you get hit on the arm or leg, because you wouldn't die from that in real life"

 

There was silly ol' me thinking this was real life and we were participating in a hobby/sport/game!

 

Headshot rules date back to the beginning of paintball, and continue for rental paintball.

 

With original paintballers using basic workshop goggles there wasn’t a ‘headshots don’t count rule’ but an unwritten rule to avoid shooting the head.

With airsoft eye protection being minimal this could continue in some sites rules in a similar manner (may be in their insurance risk assessment & mitigation)

Headshots don’t count and gun shots don’t count are common in rental

paintball to avoid players hiding behind cover blind firIng. It also can keep players live for longer to shoot more and buy more.

Again - it could be in risk assessments and mitigation against rentals lifting their goggles

 

I once used the  gun shot & headshot rule to my advantage (and my bodies disadvantage)

I defended one corner of a village in the corner of a hut holding attackers behind a bush.

I crouched and curled my body, fitting in a tiny corner of the hut where those to my side up a hill couldn’t get enough angle

on me.

My gun and head were half poking out wedges down as close to the ground as possible with my trigger hand tucked under my chin and shot at anyone who tried to come out of the bush 

As I had no allowance for movement without exposing my body they only needed one person to sacrifice themselves by coming out of the other side of the bush - to shoot that corner I would needed to have leaned around.

[Adolf Hamster]

24 minutes ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

That's a strange one. I heard "It doesn't make sense that you have to call out if you get hit on the arm or leg, because you wouldn't die from that in real life"

 

wouldn't kill you but you probably wouldn't be combat effective when your down a few fingers.....

[Groot]

2 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

wouldn't kill you but you probably wouldn't be combat effective when your down a few fingers.....

 

 

Tis but a scratch

[Tommikka]

Arguments on rules are a combination of dickheads and rules being unclear (we normally do it that way doesn’t count when different players turn up)

 

I prefer two clearly defined rules:

 

Surrender - you think you have the drop on someone, call surrender but you may need to shoot first is they don’t accept

 

Tag - you get so close to someone that you are able to touch them with a tap on the shoulder etc 

Call ‘tag’ and that’s a confirmed kill 

I write the rules for my events so any argument about them has to come to me

Do so in a game and that means

1) you haven’t read the game scenario pack

2) you haven’t read the rule summary SOAP (Scenario on a page)

3) you didn’t listen to the brief

3 hours ago, Tackle said:

Talking of taped arms & player ID, flicking around on the net it occurred to me that seeing as more than half (if not more ?) of the worlds armies are now sporting variants of multicam/mtp etc, if there was another major conflict, gonna be a potential nightmare to ID the enemy in poor light etc ?.

America had a solution to that - reflectors on the back of your helmet and on parts of your uniform, IR lights etc

Which all fail when you are up against an opposition who obtains some equipment 

Let alone allowing a random attacker to walk straight into a co-alition base because they wore ACU from the local market 

[Tackle]

Murica, the country that invented terms such as "friendly fire" & "broken arrow" 🤣 

[Groot]

Just now, Tackle said:

Murica, the country that invented terms such as "friendly fire" & "broken arrow" 🤣 

 

And is allowing P Diddy to run for POTUS