Cromulon1994 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 I don't see anyone has mentioned that the people working in Japan for Marui/tanaka/marushin ect will cost more than it being made in China. Fair wages for fair work. You also tend to get less lemons from a qc point of view from Japan than China. QC really doesn't seem to be their strong point at times. A similar case would be the Michelin truck tyre remould QC centre that's in Stoke on trent. It was outsourced to China, and suddenly they found almost nothing was rejected and Michelin had a higher failure rate. They've since come back to Stoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 Or the Enola Gaye model, their factory is in China, but they don’t contract a Chinese pyrotechnics factory. They have built their own factory and employ in China. This gives them full control over their products from R&D, manufacture, testing, delivery and more testing. https://enolagaye.com/the-company/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skara Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, Tommikka said: Or the Enola Gaye model, their factory is in China, but they don’t contract a Chinese pyrotechnics factory. They have built their own factory and employ in China. This gives them full control over their products from R&D, manufacture, testing, delivery and more testing. https://enolagaye.com/the-company/ But at that point I think it's not really cheaper to manufacture in China. If you want high quality standards you'll have to invest the same money in training you'd spend in Europe. Yes, of course you save on salary, but everything else is pretty much the same in terms of cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musica Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 We should only buy British made replicas keep the Pound strong! Anyone who doesn't isn't making Great Britain Great! 26 minutes ago, Cromulon1994 said: I don't see anyone has mentioned that the people working in Japan for Marui/tanaka/marushin ect will cost more than it being made in China. Fair wages for fair work. You also tend to get less lemons from a qc point of view from Japan than China. QC really doesn't seem to be their strong point at times. Never considered that really good point. I think it's widely considered accepted that TM pistols are much higher quality than anything else out there and thus worth the extra money for most of us. But it's very user specific as if you don't use your side arm much or if at all then it's not worth the extra money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Lozart Posted March 2, 2020 Supporters Share Posted March 2, 2020 ️ 6 1 hour ago, Cromulon1994 said: I don't see anyone has mentioned that the people working in Japan for Marui/tanaka/marushin ect will cost more than it being made in China. Fair wages for fair work. You also tend to get less lemons from a qc point of view from Japan than China. QC really doesn't seem to be their strong point at times. A similar case would be the Michelin truck tyre remould QC centre that's in Stoke on trent. It was outsourced to China, and suddenly they found almost nothing was rejected and Michelin had a higher failure rate. They've since come back to Stoke. Wage cost is less of a measure on Chinese manufacturing now, Hong Kong is equal top in the world for the cost of living: The ten most expensive cities in the world Country City WCOL index (New York=100) Rank Rank movement Singapore Singapore 107 1 0 France Paris 107 1 1 China Hong Kong 107 1 3 Switzerland Zurich 106 4 -2 Switzerland Geneva 101 5 1 Japan Osaka 101 5 6 South Korea Seoul 100 7 -1 Denmark Copenhagen 100 7 1 US New York 100 7 6 Israel Tel Aviv 99 10 -1 US Los Angeles 99 10 4 Quite often the sheer volume of production that China can muster is the deciding factor on cost! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skara Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 7 hours ago, Lozart said: Don't think it would fit in an M4 pouch then! They'd sell thousands though. (Edit: idk wtf happened, sorry for the quadruple tag) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaBear Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 11 hours ago, Lozart said: On Odin's Facebook page... Don't think it would fit in an M4 pouch then! They also said the the new EPM1 mag will also be delayed... they only shipped a 1000 units to dealers in the states in the so called first wave... On a secondary note why the hell did they call the new EPM mags EPM1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Lozart Posted March 3, 2020 Supporters Share Posted March 3, 2020 22 minutes ago, AlphaBear said: They also said the the new EPM1 mag will also be delayed... they only shipped a 1000 units to dealers in the states in the so called first wave... On a secondary note why the hell did they call the new EPM mags EPM1? Pretty much anything made in China is delayed. It's the EPM1 because it's a development of the EPM. Apparently there's an EPM2 out there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarrin Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 10 hours ago, Musica said: But it's very user specific as if you don't use your side arm much or if at all then it's not worth the extra money. Yeah exactly, I remember going in and buying my first 1911 meu from wolf armouries.. settled on the WE at about 100 quid, but the fella was half trying to push the TM on me, i cant quite remember but I think it may have been about 200 quid. I gave him the ol cave man 'metal goooood... plastic baaaad', but the only thing that really shooed him away was when I go... 'look mate, i hardly ever use my sidearm, I really just want a cool looking 1911' - ty WE at half the price and weighted like a rock 😅. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaBear Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 6 hours ago, Lozart said: Pretty much anything made in China is delayed. It's the EPM1 because it's a development of the EPM. Apparently there's an EPM2 out there too. Maybe their thinking was the original EPM was now EPM0 and now this second version 200 capacity one is the 1 and so on? God knows what this EPM2 version could be? Next Gen perhaps? Or a larger capacity than 200? It's like iPhone speculation lol Talking of capacity, Foxconn announced that the iPhone plant is running at 25% capacity! That's just putting things into perspective now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Oakmont Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Lozart Your products ain't made in Hong Kong, it's not the 1970's china can and will copy anything you want, at any quality level required it comes down to cost you want it cheaper, they cut production costs /quality. you want it really cheap to undercut the poor devil who developed it to an expensive, reliable spec then you won't get the same product it will just look like it. Then it will fail. musica a quality item item is exactly that, doesn't matter how often you use it. i could use my Tm hi capa every day or once a month, compared to a we equivalent it functions better, on a price per use case that comes down to whether you can afford/justify the extra expense In general armourers works are considered a bargain and well worth the extra money over a standard WE model in action air BUT nobody who wants to rely on the function of their hicapa in competition builds on one as a base model If you just want a pistol to hang on your belt to look cool buy the cheapest but don't expect it to perform like a Tm and by all means entertain me how your p.o.s never lets you down, can hit the other side of the moon and cost half that of a Tm. It will, it can't and it's cheap because it's heavy tinpot metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Tackle Posted March 3, 2020 Supporters Share Posted March 3, 2020 Question for all: Some here have a issue with clones massively undercutting the original product/developers, but what about people, players or 3rd parties who can (& do) 3d print & copy items that were previously made by bona-fide manufacturers. Yep I know we're not talking about intricate mechanical items, but surely we're still "taking food from the mouths" from those who developed & sold the originals ? Double standards ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Adolf Hamster Posted March 3, 2020 Author Supporters Share Posted March 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tackle said: Question for all: Some here have a issue with clones massively undercutting the original product/developers, but what about people, players or 3rd parties who can (& do) 3d print & copy items that were previously made by bona-fide manufacturers. Yep I know we're not talking about intricate mechanical items, but surely we're still "taking food from the mouths" from those who developed & sold the originals ? Double standards ? interesting point, although i must admit i don't do much 3-d printing for airsoft because i really don't like the tech. i have a few parts i want to have a crack at, but they're my own design and primarily just a test-fitment before dropping the cash on getting stuff cnc machined properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Oakmont Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 On 28/02/2020 at 19:16, Rogerborg said: supply On 28/02/2020 at 19:16, Rogerborg said: Pragmatically, the only way to compete against that is to offer more value to your customers, all the way through the ownership process, soup to nuts. That means better marketing, easier purchasing, ready parts supply, no-quibble support, and most of all backing your own brand by owning the entire supply chain. I wish this were the case but then what would I moan about on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skara Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 4 hours ago, Tackle said: Question for all: Some here have a issue with clones massively undercutting the original product/developers, but what about people, players or 3rd parties who can (& do) 3d print & copy items that were previously made by bona-fide manufacturers. Yep I know we're not talking about intricate mechanical items, but surely we're still "taking food from the mouths" from those who developed & sold the originals ? Double standards ? Not really. I'll put it this way. Company A makes and sells X. B (either a company or an individual) takes X, changes the few things that are wrong with it, effectively improving the product, and sells it. Note: Using better materials to me means improving the product even if the design is the exact same. In this case I'm buying from B, because it is an improvement over the original X design. Company A makes and sells X. B copies the design without any actual modification and sells it (equal or lower quality, so definitely not an improvement over the original X) B can suck a big fat one, I'm buying from A because it's 100% their work. Also, what @Adolf Hamster stated is the main point of owning/using a 3D printer, the creation of a prototype to test fittings and overall design before splashing monies on the finished product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaylordofwaargh Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 On 03/03/2020 at 13:58, Skara said: Company A makes and sells X. B (either a company or an individual) takes X, changes the few things that are wrong with it, effectively improving the product, and sells it. Note: Using better materials to me means improving the product even if the design is the exact same. In this case I'm buying from B, because it is an improvement over the original X design. Company A makes and sells X. B copies the design without any actual modification and sells it (equal or lower quality, so definitely not an improvement over the original X) B can suck a big fat one, I'm buying from A because it's 100% their work. There are some great points on market forces on here. My perspective as a budget softer is making it really hard to buy accessories, for example why would I drop £40 (sale price) on a t1 red dot when my pew shooter only cost £75.... Which is why I have made the decision to buy a more expensive gun..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philby21 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 7 hours ago, Jaylordofwaargh said: Which is why I have made the decision to buy a more expensive gun..... That's a perfect example of airsoft logic. Only beaten by biker logic - spending ~£800 on new leathers "because they don't match the colour of my new bike"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted March 6, 2020 Supporters Share Posted March 6, 2020 5 hours ago, Philby21 said: Only beaten by biker logic - spending ~£800 on new leathers "because they don't match the colour of my new bike"! I sometimes add up how much I've spent on toy guns and toy gun accessories, and twitch a bit. Then I look in the garage and I laugh and laugh and laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaBear Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 6 hours ago, Philby21 said: That's a perfect example of airsoft logic. Only beaten by biker logic - spending ~£800 on new leathers "because they don't match the colour of my new bike"! Makes perfect sense. You can’t wear mismatching leathers. Colour co-ordination is important. It’s like wearing white socks. What’s that all about? Or having a tan gun and wearing soldier 95 kit. No no no. OCD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaylordofwaargh Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 12 hours ago, AlphaBear said: like wearing white socks. What’s that all about? Or having a tan gun and wearing soldier 95 kit. I need to spray my hand guard 😓.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaBear Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 4 hours ago, Jaylordofwaargh said: I need to spray my hand guard 😓.... Don't spray if you can help it... buy a replacement or aftermarket one depending on which gun you have.... If you do have to spray then make sure you get the right paint... don't know which ones people use though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaylordofwaargh Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 1 hour ago, AlphaBear said: Don't spray if you can help it... buy a replacement or aftermarket one Did you miss the bit where I have trouble spending 40 quid on a good red dot? I have marked 20% (of pew price, not retail or worth, just flat what I paid for it) a rough limit on accessories. Still cringing at the thought of paying £12 for a grip. Joking aside - I'm budget softer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaBear Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 13 minutes ago, Jaylordofwaargh said: Did you miss the bit where I have trouble spending 40 quid on a good red dot? I have marked 20% (of pew price, not retail or worth, just flat what I paid for it) a rough limit on accessories. Still cringing at the thought of paying £12 for a grip. Joking aside - I'm budget softer Ahhhh sorry... missed that point.. Halfords for paint then... £6 for a can of matt black aerosol... wash your grip first with hot soapy water.. then let it dry 24 hrs... once dry spray the grip... 2 coats over 48 hrs should do it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Lozart Posted March 8, 2020 Supporters Share Posted March 8, 2020 8 hours ago, Jaylordofwaargh said: Did you miss the bit where I have trouble spending 40 quid on a good red dot? I have marked 20% (of pew price, not retail or worth, just flat what I paid for it) a rough limit on accessories. Still cringing at the thought of paying £12 for a grip. Joking aside - I'm budget softer Yeah...you may have picked the wrong hobby. Have you considered crocheting instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaylordofwaargh Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 16 hours ago, Lozart said: Have you considered crocheting instead? So yeah about that... (yes yarn comes in all shapes and qualities and sizes) hooking is not so cheap, only using yarn about £6 per ball a 6x4ft blanket can cost up to £120...then you have these 😉 (not random websites my partner is a hooker [insert misogynistic joke here, but it is a name they use...they do use hooks]) Anyway next pew will be a gsg g14 with stuff attached. But with spending that much on a rif I can spend more on accessories. I'm not poor per say, just cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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