Helical gears in XM8, what to do?

[Asomodai]

Hey gents. 

 

Rightly or wrongly a tech put a Lonex Helical gear set in my SRC XM8. Very high quality gears by all accounts.

 

But I am not sure if this was really a good choice. The ROF is way down as they are a high torque set, I am only producing 310 FPS at most and the gears like to lock up on semi even with a fully charged 11.1v lipo battery. (Probably exacerbated by the Active Braking in the mosfet. )

 

Helical gear sets are a bit outdated now as most of us know. Sure the gears are a bit quieter then a standard set and quite a bit stronger but that's the only advantage I can see. 

 

What shall I do next? I would like to keep the gears if possible. I can only see a few things I can do. 

 

 

 

DMR: Turn XM8 into a DMR, it's possible, maybe turn it into a low powered DMR, the gear set can handle it, though i am not sure what motor to pair with it to keep good trigger response. I also have another XM8 to do the standard rifle thing with. I already have two DMRs though!

 

High speed motor: this will up the rate of fire but I would be very concerned about the trigger response. 

 

Leave as is: it shoots fine. Just cant spam the trigger as much as I'd like to. 

 

Gut completely: Change the gear set to something more standard. I am more confident of doing this then when I first sent it to be upgraded. But it's a lot of work in addition to the money spent. 

 

What say you? 

[Tackle]

I'm guessing then that the work you had done wasn't recent, & therefore going back to the "tech" with the issues isn't really an option ?.

while I'm a big fan of the principles of dmr's, a low powered dmr kinda defeats the object, essentially your being forced to run single shot because you have no other options (at this moment).

choices are:

Stick with dmr option but look for a simple solution to increase fps, maybe just a spring ?.

OR

Gut it & put a suitable gearset to get it running as it should.

 

while I generally always only use single shot, even on my lower power guns, doesn't seem right that your being forced to do so due to your tech doing questionable work.

[Asomodai]

30 minutes ago, Tackle said:

I'm guessing then that the work you had done wasn't recent, & therefore going back to the "tech" with the issues isn't really an option ?.

while I'm a big fan of the principles of dmr's, a low powered dmr kinda defeats the object, essentially your being forced to run single shot because you have no other options (at this moment).

choices are:

Stick with dmr option but look for a simple solution to increase fps, maybe just a spring ?.

OR

Gut it & put a suitable gearset to get it running as it should.

 

while I generally always only use single shot, even on my lower power guns, doesn't seem right that your being forced to do so due to your tech doing questionable work.

 

It was recent work, but I have given up on techs, the money it takes to get the train there and back would be the same for a new gearset. I have taken it back twice before. 

 

It's a well built gearbox so could easily take up to 450 fps. But I would also want to combat the lock up on semi and trigger response issues so would probably need a suitable motor. So a high speed one? Or a balanced one?

 

 

 

 

 

[E21A]

 

28 minutes ago, Asomodai said:

 

It's a well built gearbox so could easily take up to 450 fps. But I would also want to combat the lock up on semi and trigger response issues so would probably need a suitable motor. So a high speed one? Or a balanced one?

 

You’ll want a high torque one for fast trigger response in a DMR build. A good mosfet and 11.1 lipo too. 

[Tackle]

sounds like you should be "outing" the tech in some way, name the guy ir shop on here, stop anybody else having the same problems ?.

sounds like your now reasonably up to speed with tech work & what's needed, you've got two xm8's haven't you ?, why not go for a high power dmr build, gives you an alternative when you take both to gamedays, especially if you find its a site that screams out for more range etc.

(I always tried to have same mag backup guns, 2 variants of the same model, such as my m14's, for the same reason)

[Asomodai]

5 minutes ago, E21A said:

 

 

You’ll want a high torque one for fast trigger response in a DMR build. A good mosfet and 11.1 lipo too. 

I thought for a high torque gears you needed high speed motor? Or is that for rate of fire? It already has a neo SRC high torque, though I guess I could get a better one. More TPA the better?

9 minutes ago, Tackle said:

sounds like you should be "outing" the tech in some way, name the guy ir shop on here, stop anybody else having the same problems ?.

sounds like your now reasonably up to speed with tech work & what's needed, you've got two xm8's haven't you ?, why not go for a high power dmr build, gives you an alternative when you take both to gamedays, especially if you find its a site that screams out for more range etc.

(I always tried to have same mag backup guns, 2 variants of the same model, such as my m14's, for the same reason)

 

Not prepared to out them at the moment. 

 

I have no problems doing the work at all. I already have a G36 based DMR though!

[E21A]

19 minutes ago, Asomodai said:

I thought for a high torque gears you needed high speed motor? Or is that for rate of fire? It already has a neo SRC high torque, though I guess I could get a better one. More TPA the better?

 

My understanding is high speed motors are for high rate ROF and lower power, they spin faster but don’t have as much grunt. 

 

A hight torque motor is a lot stronger but doesn’t spin very fast, so it can handle stronger springs and it reaches its max rpm much quicker resulting in faster response 

 

[Tackle]

no worries, but sounds like its been an expensive process so far, much of which should have been avoidable ?.

 

dmr or not dmr, your choice, but do you want two xm8's that are pretty much identical in every aspect, seems like a wasted opportunity.

as an example, & I know you like bullpups, I've got an early (Ares I think) tar-21 in the loft, these were a notorious pain in the butt due to to the rod system for trigger & fire selector etc, tweaked it previously & it worked fi a while but its a crap system, but rather than give up on it I'm thinking "fuck it, why not dmr it & stick an electronic trigger on it".......too nice to dump but a nuisance to keep having to work on just to keep it working normally.

[Asomodai]

19 minutes ago, Tackle said:

no worries, but sounds like its been an expensive process so far, much of which should have been avoidable ?.

 

dmr or not dmr, your choice, but do you want two xm8's that are pretty much identical in every aspect, seems like a wasted opportunity.

as an example, & I know you like bullpups, I've got an early (Ares I think) tar-21 in the loft, these were a notorious pain in the butt due to to the rod system for trigger & fire selector etc, tweaked it previously & it worked fi a while but its a crap system, but rather than give up on it I'm thinking "fuck it, why not dmr it & stick an electronic trigger on it".......too nice to dump but a nuisance to keep having to work on just to keep it working normally.

 

Absolutely. 

 

I guess it's because they are somewhat rare as well which makes me think to keep them as standard rifles. The thing is that gear set is pretty niche and i keep hearing that it would be difficult to get a good trigger response out of something which is essentially a 21:1 ratio. People say that its not possible in comparison to high speed gears

 

I guess a DMR setup would be best. 

21 minutes ago, E21A said:

 

My understanding is high speed motors are for high rate ROF and lower power, they spin faster but don’t have as much grunt. 

 

A hight torque motor is a lot stronger but doesn’t spin very fast, so it can handle stronger springs and it reaches its max rpm much quicker resulting in faster response 

 

 

I heard the opposite with regards to high torque motor and high torque gears. I dont know who to believe at this point 😉

[E21A]

 

19 minutes ago, Asomodai said:

 

I heard the opposite with regards to high torque motor and high torque gears. I dont know who to believe at this point 😉

 

🤔 that may well be right with the gears. I know the motor thing is correct. Not sure how that works out with different gearsets if I’m honest. 

[Asomodai]

I think the first thing to do is to cut the gate wire on the active braking mosfet. Ab seems to make semi lock up more then no active braking in my experience. 

[Asomodai]

Took out the Pico AAB from the XM8 and SL8. Installed Acetechs in place. Seems to be locking up less now! 

 

(As an aside the Picos are for sale at 30 quid shipped for the pair )