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Blackbeard01

VSR 10 hpa tank mount

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So doing a generic vsr hpa build which I have to use the hpa bottles on for site reasons. Question is has anyone seen the bottles secured to the rifle in any fashion? I'm thinking of making up a mount to hold it parallel to the scope maybe? Any thoughts are welcome.

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I tested attaching the bottles to the scope on my tanaka rifle, never got around to finding a mount just tested it with tape which holds it pretty tight and can then be covered with camo wrap or netting.  It does make the rifle pretty heavy which might not be as big of a deal as the vsr is generally lighter than tanaka rifles.

 

 

IMG_0718.JPG

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My buddy uses a stock pouch and has it slid into this. It’s not a huge tank and takes getting used to, but it works.

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Attaching to a stock pouch is another option although i don`t think you would fit a hpa bottle into a stock pouch, its really more of another option when using a co2 capsule adaptor even it does not fit well along with the regulator which looks more like the pictures below.  Problem is co2 is just not as good as hpa as least not the 12g capsules anyway.

 

 

IMG_0727.JPG

IMG_0729.JPG

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Tbh, I don't think a stock pouch would do the trick as it's so big. Scope mount is going to be the way forward I think. It's not that bigger issue as I've got access to a pretty good 3D printer as a "work perk". I did find a picture of the set up I'm after but I cant for the life of me find it again. I don't suppose anyone can think of the one I mean? 

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You can get a very small HPA bottle, about the size of a Tomato Sauce bottle, that fits into the pouch with just the neck and reg sticking out. 

 

It works, it’s just not particularly pretty, or user friendly IMHO.

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1 hour ago, Prisce said:

You can get a very small HPA bottle, about the size of a Tomato Sauce bottle, that fits into the pouch with just the neck and reg sticking out. 

 

It works, it’s just not particularly pretty, or user friendly IMHO.

13ci cylinder :

 

https://shop.super5ives.com/shop/item/12398

 

(As an aside, 13ci 3000psi Aluminum cylinders happen to be exempt from hydro testing)

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20 hours ago, Tommikka said:

13ci cylinder :

 

https://shop.super5ives.com/shop/item/12398

 

(As an aside, 13ci 3000psi Aluminum cylinders happen to be exempt from hydro testing)

Just wanna throw it out there, as someone who has studied hydraulics and pneumatics and spend a lot of time working with them, if that small one goes off bang either on tour gun, in your rig or under your bed you are going to die, itlllitterly tear you apart and even if it doesn't, the sudden spike in air pressure will probably kill you. Regardless of if its exempt from hydro tests or not I would not compress it with anything that doesn't have an air drier or cooler and I'd replace it every two years minimum. A lot of people get very seriously injured and many have died as a result if poorly maintained pressure vessels, it's really not worth the risk.

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49 minutes ago, Blackbeard01 said:

Just wanna throw it out there, as someone who has studied hydraulics and pneumatics and spend a lot of time working with them, if that small one goes off bang either on tour gun, in your rig or under your bed you are going to die, itlllitterly tear you apart and even if it doesn't, the sudden spike in air pressure will probably kill you. Regardless of if its exempt from hydro tests or not I would not compress it with anything that doesn't have an air drier or cooler and I'd replace it every two years minimum. A lot of people get very seriously injured and many have died as a result if poorly maintained pressure vessels, it's really not worth the risk.

You can die from 8psi of pressure. I work in Compressed air all day long, your point is valid, but you answered your own question.

 

Poorly maintained pressure vessels, only an idiot would not inspect and respect something that is literally an explosive, or so I’d like to think.

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11 minutes ago, Prisce said:

You can die from 8psi of pressure. I work in Compressed air all day long, your point is valid, but you answered your own question.

 

Poorly maintained pressure vessels, only an idiot would not inspect and respect something that is literally an explosive, or so I’d like to think.

The issue is a lot of players don't really understand pressure vessels. They are just like the c02 bottles and green gas so will just hiss a little. They wont burst because they are made of metal. I don't think the average hpa player really understands the danger of pressure vessels as a lot don't really know what they are or what they are capable of. They certainly aren't toys.

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3 hours ago, Blackbeard01 said:

Just wanna throw it out there, as someone who has studied hydraulics and pneumatics and spend a lot of time working with them, if that small one goes off bang either on tour gun, in your rig or under your bed you are going to die, itlllitterly tear you apart and even if it doesn't, the sudden spike in air pressure will probably kill you. Regardless of if its exempt from hydro tests or not I would not compress it with anything that doesn't have an air drier or cooler and I'd replace it every two years minimum. A lot of people get very seriously injured and many have died as a result if poorly maintained pressure vessels, it's really not worth the risk.

Exemption from hydro testing does not mean the cylinder has not been manufactured to standards which require samples to be tested to destruction.

 

A Pi marked 3000psi compressed air cylinder will be designed to hold 3000psi (just over 200bar) and to meet that standard must be capable of holding 4500psi (just over 300bar) without failure or expansion beyond specified criteria.

The regulator must be fitted with both high pressure and low pressure burst disks, which act as a safety fuse.

If the pressure exceeds the burst disks designed point of failure then the disk fails and excess pressure is safely released.  If / when the burst disk degrades over time due to repeated pressurisation and depressurisation it will safely fail and release pressure.

It will be a brown pants moment with quite a bang, and a 'loose' cylinder will spin around on the ground.  99% of people will run away.  I've been there, and among those who moved away.

This will not involve a cylinder explosion

 

A burst disk will fail due to:

1) Excessive pressure

2) End of life

3) Contamination (Dirty air)

 

Dirty air includes not using a 'breathing standard' compressors, or nipple cover and ending up with dirt on the nipple then blowing it in when filling etc

 

HPA cylinder threads are also tapered an designed to vent rather than fire the regulator if you manage to unscrew a pressurised regulator.

Older CO2 cylinders did not have the taper and there was the potential to cause the valve to fire off the cylinder.

 

 

 

There is however a genuine consideration which can involve a cylinder explosion.

This can be avoided with safe practices and not acting upon dangerous maintenance.

 

For example a flash fill explosion.

Back when I began in paintball there were bad practices going on, such as unregulated high speed fills, turning a blind eye to non UK/Euro cylinders, and letting people use self fill rigs.

This all changed with a series of flash fill explosions over a short period of time.

 

This case local to me (It took place in Southampton) was a result of an unregulated fast fill, and oil contamination of the fill rig.

It resulted in turning an untralight Stako 4500 psi cylinder into a Diesel engine

(Stako cylinders at that time were a thin walled aluminium & fibre wrap cylinder with a maximum 5 year lifespan with no hydro test regime.  The explosions gave the brand & design a bad reputation but the cylinder was not to blame)

 

Note that the player holding the cylinder at the fill station in this incident did not die.  They did have an explosion in their hand,  their clothing burnt away, and they were hospitalised.

 

 

I am aware of air safety

A UK legal 13ci compressed cylinder is as safe as any other U.K. legal compressed air cylinder 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5941A423-A571-42B8-8B80-ABB7115CFC39.jpeg

8C621217-E98F-4A52-A0A9-A339EDDD77F7.jpeg

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B6B70622-679B-4A1F-B49F-9CE3D727D4CE.jpeg

B8F71004-9FCA-4668-9A06-51C937E9D15C.jpeg

1C99E9DB-CF15-4AE8-91D3-E79A990B2CD2.jpeg

74A2580F-D3B1-4003-8919-08BA8F3D80F5.jpeg

DA18380F-F44A-41C9-A30D-F8F57A00F5BC.jpeg

92DB9E32-067C-4BB0-8B33-309EBA2F628B.jpeg

3A3AE282-7B0B-483A-938F-239871B3DC7F.jpeg

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9 hours ago, Tommikka said:

Exemption from hydro testing does not mean the cylinder has not been manufactured to standards which require samples to be tested to destruction.

 

A Pi marked 3000psi compressed air cylinder will be designed to hold 3000psi (just over 200bar) and to meet that standard must be capable of holding 4500psi (just over 300bar) without failure or expansion beyond specified criteria.

The regulator must be fitted with both high pressure and low pressure burst disks, which act as a safety fuse.

If the pressure exceeds the burst disks designed point of failure then the disk fails and excess pressure is safely released.  If / when the burst disk degrades over time due to repeated pressurisation and depressurisation it will safely fail and release pressure.

It will be a brown pants moment with quite a bang, and a 'loose' cylinder will spin around on the ground.  99% of people will run away.  I've been there, and among those who moved away.

This will not involve a cylinder explosion

 

A burst disk will fail due to:

1) Excessive pressure

2) End of life

3) Contamination (Dirty air)

 

Dirty air includes not using a 'breathing standard' compressors, or nipple cover and ending up with dirt on the nipple then blowing it in when filling etc

 

HPA cylinder threads are also tapered an designed to vent rather than fire the regulator if you manage to unscrew a pressurised regulator.

Older CO2 cylinders did not have the taper and there was the potential to cause the valve to fire off the cylinder.

 

 

 

There is however a genuine consideration which can involve a cylinder explosion.

This can be avoided with safe practices and not acting upon dangerous maintenance.

 

For example a flash fill explosion.

Back when I began in paintball there were bad practices going on, such as unregulated high speed fills, turning a blind eye to non UK/Euro cylinders, and letting people use self fill rigs.

This all changed with a series of flash fill explosions over a short period of time.

 

This case local to me (It took place in Southampton) was a result of an unregulated fast fill, and oil contamination of the fill rig.

It resulted in turning an untralight Stako 4500 psi cylinder into a Diesel engine

(Stako cylinders at that time were a thin walled aluminium & fibre wrap cylinder with a maximum 5 year lifespan with no hydro test regime.  The explosions gave the brand & design a bad reputation but the cylinder was not to blame)

 

Note that the player holding the cylinder at the fill station in this incident did not die.  They did have an explosion in their hand,  their clothing burnt away, and they were hospitalised.

 

 

I am aware of air safety

A UK legal 13ci compressed cylinder is as safe as any other U.K. legal compressed air cylinder 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5941A423-A571-42B8-8B80-ABB7115CFC39.jpeg

8C621217-E98F-4A52-A0A9-A339EDDD77F7.jpeg

A9F0652F-DC79-499B-81F9-5EEE6700BD04.jpeg

B6B70622-679B-4A1F-B49F-9CE3D727D4CE.jpeg

B8F71004-9FCA-4668-9A06-51C937E9D15C.jpeg

1C99E9DB-CF15-4AE8-91D3-E79A990B2CD2.jpeg

74A2580F-D3B1-4003-8919-08BA8F3D80F5.jpeg

DA18380F-F44A-41C9-A30D-F8F57A00F5BC.jpeg

92DB9E32-067C-4BB0-8B33-309EBA2F628B.jpeg

3A3AE282-7B0B-483A-938F-239871B3DC7F.jpeg

That paintball player is ridiculously lucky! As part of my course we had to do loads of case studies given to us by the HSE where we just did an essay on what they did wrong and what should be in place to stop it. They would use real case study's to scare us and believe me, people have died from a lot less! We had a teacher who worked with the pneumatics at Bristol airport I think he said where they have massive tunnels under the airport to service the pneumatic and hydraulic pipes that supply the hangers. He always used to tell a story of someone knocking over a cylinder that was about 5 for high and knocked the valve off resulting in the cylinder travelling from one end of the tunnel to the other in a very short space of time. It's actually unreal the amount of energy you have stored in these things.

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