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sonofsammo

Vector + HPA - but how to do it?

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Whilst I was playing yesterday, the polarstars seemed to dominate the field somewhat.
And it got me thinking.
I love the Vector platform. And would love a boost in performance.
So, taking £ out of the picture for a moment (as I already have the Krytac), which route would be best in terms of on field performance and why...?

Krytac Vector + fusion engine + HPA

KWA Vector + HPA

I have very little experience of using HPA and zero experience of using it in an AEG, so any help/advice would be much appreciated.
TIA 
Andrew

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The krytac would be better because the kwa hop is shite.

 

I’d ask why you think they’re dominating? At all of the fields I’ve played at, HPA has no noticeable advantage. It’s usually the play style or general skill of the individual that dictates if they kick your ass or not. I’ve seen players with springer shotguns destroy multiple people in woodland just by understanding their strengths and limitations. My rifles generally have the best range on the field but the lowest ammo capacity. Being on the front line is pointless for me, but sitting at the back, 60+m from the enemy gets me loads of kills and very few hits because I’m limiting the people who can hit me. 

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1 hour ago, Wo1f said:

I’d ask why you think they’re dominating? At all of the fields I’ve played at, HPA has no noticeable advantage. It’s usually the play style or general skill of the individual that dictates if they kick your ass or not. I’ve seen players with springer shotguns destroy multiple people in woodland just by understanding their strengths and limitations. My rifles generally have the best range on the field but the lowest ammo capacity. Being on the front line is pointless for me, but sitting at the back, 60+m from the enemy gets me loads of kills and very few hits because I’m limiting the people who can hit me. 

 

agreed, hpa offers excellent accuracy and trigger response but that alone doesn't compensate for the skill (or lack thereof) of the shooter. what counts just as much is tactics.

 

perfect example is there's a guy at one of the sites i go to runs around with a battered old rental spec g36 with a hicap, however he absolutely dominates the field because he's a freakin ferret who's impossible to hit and he knows the place like the back of his hand. i can say this polarstar or aeg doesn't matter i still get regularly tagged by him regardless of how much "better" my firepower is.

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Only time I would say yes they can dominate is any kind of CQB engagement (wether a dedicated site or just a building or bunker on a woodland site) purely just for the rates of fire they can achieve , even with supposed short controlled bursts they can stick such a stupid rate of fire at you if they want just by setting them to do so then you may as well be attacking a full unit of support guns ! 

Classic example is strikeforce in Gloucester , in the past rule was single shot only now they allow short bursts , last time I went several time there was a couple of sections you just could not take no matter what you tried as there were three players running HPA who must have been a team or good friends due to there ability to work together (nothing wrong there , nice change to see it actually happening !) BUT the guns were obviously set to ridiculous and you just couldn’t get past or through them due to this , even though it was supposed to be ‘short controlled’ bursts the amount of rounds they were able to send down range and the excellent way they worked together ment there was absolutely no way to get past them which turned it in to a stalemate . So I’d say yes they can dominate but only in a few specific situations , rest of the time ? No different to a support gun .

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1 hour ago, Druid799 said:

Classic example is strikeforce in Gloucester , in the past rule was single shot only now they allow short bursts

 

did it work out for them? must admit i'm torn with full auto in cqb, i wouldn't mind with say a lowered limit, but at full power you can get near a standard aeg in full auto levels of fire from an hpa in semi let alone engaging bert mode.

 

i do use a higher rof (and yes i'm building a stupid high rof mg42, but that's more an experiment than a practical gun) mostly for punching through bushes and for when a few taps of semi isn't enough to convince someone they've been hit but then that's outdoors generally at extended range.

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24 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

did it work out for them? must admit i'm torn with full auto in cqb, i wouldn't mind with say a lowered limit, but at full power you can get near a standard aeg in full auto levels of fire from an hpa in semi let alone engaging bert mode.

You can do the same with an AEG if you build it right and throw in a Titan it will go as fast as your finger can. Aeg will never keep up with a a good hpa on auto but semi is doable.

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Plus no matter what anyone says, air rig and line is a PITA - especially when/if you need to swap firing sides.

Add to that the expense and inconvenience of tank ownership and refill.

 

Im with @ImTriggerHappy if you want trigger response and good ROF a spec'd AEG build is king.

 

The only positive to HPA is joule creep if you wanted to use it for range work, but this is limited on most engines unless you have a classic P*.

But seeing as your looking at your Vector for HPA, range work isn't going to be its game, what with a short ass barrel, joule creep aint happening.

The Vectors game is really CQB to mid range, if your looking to CQB why would you want the added bulk of Air tank and limited movement of a line??

 

Im actually surpised your running a Vector @sonofsammo, I thought you had arm / wrist issues? Or am I confusing you witht he wrong person?? 😕 I find Vectors to be very ill balanced / front heavy.

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31 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

Plus no matter what anyone says, air rig and line is a PITA - especially when/if you need to swap firing sides.

 

This is a key problem with remote lines.

 

A forgotten part of paintball history is that remote lines were born in tournament paintball, taking the bottle off the gun and making the players profile smaller.  But the line introduced the new problems of getting tangled up when swapping hands, and made the gun unsteady

 

A botttle on a paintball gun is used as its stock, and if you use a 4500psi fibre cylinder then you have a curved base in your shoulder which lets you roll the gun instead of jerking it when changing the direction of fire

 

Real guns have stocks due to their physics, and though the physics of Airsoft differ it is a game where you tend to replicate the real look.

In paintball people often incorrectly call guns with stocks “woodsball” guns and those without “soeedball” guns.

A speedball gun works in the woods, and a woods all gun would work in a tournament, but is disadvantaged by ergonomics.

Remote lines are commonly seen in the woods as the player uses a gun with a stock and the bottle would be in the way, or the gun is inefficient and a bigger bottle is carried

There is also the factor that people use them in the woods so they continue to do so

 

I haven’t used my remote lines for many years - the only one I used last year was to dismantle it and build a CO2 cooling system for my drinks cool box

When using a gun with a stock I would use my small 13ci 3000psi, or 48ci peanut 4500psi.  Either of which can sit under the stock

 

In Airsoft people seem to be coming up with an HPA solution which brings in new issues - remote line, getting fills etc 

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2 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

did it work out for them? must admit i'm torn with full auto in cqb, i wouldn't mind with say a lowered limit, but at full power you can get near a standard aeg in full auto levels of fire from an hpa in semi let alone engaging bert mode.

I’d say no it didn’t , I spoke to the site owner about it and he claimed it was due to players with bog standard run of the mill AEG’s complaining the HPA guns had an unfair advantage , so he allowed short bursts which then gave the HPA players an advantage again .

Was at this point a player approached and asked him about his HPA rig and I decided time to walk away !🤦‍♂️

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29 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

I’d say no it didn’t , I spoke to the site owner about it and he claimed it was due to players with bog standard run of the mill AEG’s complaining the HPA guns had an unfair advantage , so he allowed short bursts which then gave the HPA players an advantage again .

Was at this point a player approached and asked him about his HPA rig and I decided time to walk away !🤦‍♂️

 

fair enough, perhaps they should have implemented a rate of fire cap given most hpa's you can program that in with relative ease.

 

2 hours ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

You can do the same with an AEG if you build it right and throw in a Titan it will go as fast as your finger can. Aeg will never keep up with a a good hpa on auto but semi is doable.

 

true, before i hpa'd the m4 it was running an etu with a 40k motor and the trigger response was almost as good, of course reliability wasn't. a dsg (the favourite of speedsofters) is equally capable but again that kind of build is as expensive as an hpa setup anyway.

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I’ve never understood why they have a semi auto only rule but allow hpa players to spam the shit out of everyone. Wouldn’t it be easier to say something like “semi only, no more than 3 rounds in the air at one time”. I know they do it with DMR’s in a lot of places. Semi auto, but 1 bb in the air at a time. Stops people abusing their advantages. That and if you need 17 rapid fire shots to hit someone in a CQB environment then you’re beyond shit. 

 

In regards to this post, I think as a general “assault class” of airsoft, the gun is irrelevant to how your day goes. I think it takes more skill to play as an all rounder. Specialist equipment/guns come into play if you’re a sniper/ DMR/ support gunner. For example I play as a DM, so I’ve set my gun up to give me the best range and accuracy possible, so I have to adapt my play style to the pro’s and con’s of the platform. Low round count, large weapon, good range. I’m gonna be next to useless trying to get in close or knife kill someone, but I’m in my element tagging people from a distance. Conversely, someone with an AEG with a couple of high caps on a belt can quickly flank the enemy and get in close, having enough firepower to hold their own. 

 

If things arent going my way, regardless of the role I’m playing I change tactics. See why you’re getting killed and what the enemy keep doing and think of ways of countering it. Either by out manoeuvring/flanking, playing more aggressive or being super sneaky.

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41 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

true, before i hpa'd the m4 it was running an etu with a 40k motor and the trigger response was almost as good, of course reliability wasn't. a dsg (the favourite of speedsofters) is equally capable but again that kind of build is as expensive as an hpa setup anyway.

Dsg isnt that expensive to set up and you don't need that for trigger response. You are better off with a standard ratio gear coupled with a high torque 30k (40k motors are for high rof) and a good etu/mosfet with precock.

 

Yeah HPA is generally more reliable but still see a fair few fail and lots of hoses pissing air at random times. The reason most high spec guns fail more is not due to the specs as nothing airsoft AEG wise us actually that much of a strain it is just bad techs building shit guns.

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4 hours ago, Davegolf said:

The only positive to HPA is joule creep if you wanted to use it for range work, but this is limited on most engines unless you have a classic P*.

But seeing as your looking at your Vector for HPA, range work isn't going to be its game, what with a short ass barrel, joule creep aint happening.

The Vectors game is really CQB to mid range, if your looking to CQB why would you want the added bulk of Air tank and limited movement of a line??

 

Im actually surpised your running a Vector @sonofsammo, I thought you had arm / wrist issues? Or am I confusing you witht he wrong person?? 😕 I find Vectors to be very ill balanced / front heavy.

I love the ergonomics of the vector - it's the best designed gun I've ever used - especially from the point of view of using left/right handed for transitions etc.
Plus, I use it stockless, with a drum mag. You're right, I was the one with left arm problems. It's still not 100%, which is why I try and keep things light - but I can use it to support the gun when needed.
I tend to use the Vector in woodland - sometimes in CQB. 
But for these purposes its role would be in woodland.
People are right about the line/tank - which I'm not 100% enamoured of.
But, I wouldn't know where to start with an AEG build - and I want to do the work myself, not farm it out to a tech that I may never see it back from for a year...

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3 hours ago, sonofsammo said:

I wouldn't know where to start with an AEG build

 

Start with youtube ;)

 

And then ask questions on here. Then some more, and more... then maybe...  just maybe... one more. :lol:

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3 hours ago, sonofsammo said:

I love the ergonomics of the vector - it's the best designed gun I've ever used - especially from the point of view of using left/right handed for transitions etc.
Plus, I use it stockless, with a drum mag. You're right, I was the one with left arm problems. It's still not 100%, which is why I try and keep things light - but I can use it to support the gun when needed.
I tend to use the Vector in woodland - sometimes in CQB. 
But for these purposes its role would be in woodland.
People are right about the line/tank - which I'm not 100% enamoured of.
But, I wouldn't know where to start with an AEG build - and I want to do the work myself, not farm it out to a tech that I may never see it back from for a year...

 

+1 for the ergonomics of the Vector. I bagged a Krytac vector last year and I was so surprised at how easy it is to use. It looks like a pig and like it will not 'sit' right, but once in the shoulder at a slight incline I find it one of my most comfortable guns. It certainly needs a front grip as it is a little front heavy but no more so than say my SPR which I find very heavy and too damn long...

 

I have read a few comments from people saying its awkward or unbalanced etc, but I would say each to their own in this instance. I find it sits very nicely and snug to the body for me, so very happy using it.

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4 minutes ago, Immortal said:

 

Start with youtube ;)

 

And then ask questions on here. Then some more, and more... then maybe...  just maybe... one more. :lol:

 

You do realise this is @sonofsammo!? There will definitely be questions 😂

 

1 minute ago, Albiscuit said:

 

+1 for the ergonomics of the Vector. I bagged a Krytac vector last year and I was so surprised at how easy it is to use. It looks like a pig and like it will not 'sit' right, but once in the shoulder at a slight incline I find it one of my most comfortable guns. It certainly needs a front grip as it is a little front heavy but no more so than say my SPR which I find very heavy and too damn long..

 

I get that, I love Vector looks but it's way to front heavy, def a two hand gun.

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But spending a million quid on the gun really isn’t fixing your issue.. there’s only so much you’re gonna be able to do with it. If you’re already at the FPS limit, your only performance comes from barrel and hop. Unless the gun is dreadful, you’re gonna get an extra few meters range. How does that help your situation? 

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If you want to build a custom gun, one of the most important things for me is balance.

I use lead to balance all mine at the grip, whilst it increase the overall weight, it feels much lighter to wield 😎

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I've done this with so many guns, it's lovely when a gun naturally sits horizontal, or at least close to 'weightless' in your pistol grip.

 

@Wo1f it seemed like @sonofsammo was getting at wanting ROF more than anything??

 

But like I was too getting at earlier, with such a short barrelled gun it's effective range is never going to be all that, even with Rhop, that's where 'spray' power makes up and thus 'dominates' :D

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Hmmm, edit that double post, sorry about that

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1 hour ago, Wo1f said:

ROF over 20rps is for people who can’t shoot for shit. 

We've all seen the players with everything money can buy get there arses handed to them on a platter by the switched on noobie in a DPM jumpsuit with a rental G36/M4/AK .

Half a brain and a bit of field craft will top ANY gun ANY day of the week .

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37 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

We've all seen the players with everything money can buy get there arses handed to them on a platter by the switched on noobie in a DPM jumpsuit with a rental G36/M4/AK .

Half a brain and a bit of field craft will top ANY gun ANY day of the week .

 

Golden rule of airsoft that, all it takes is some kid in the bush you dont expect.

 

When you find that kid on the other team, never lend him a polarstar, it will not end well :P

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