Arwen Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 So I was putting a flat hop in my new G&G TR16 when I notice just how different the internals are compared to my Wasp (G&G GR16)! On top is the wasp - retails around £130 Bottom is the TR16, retails around £250. Anyone else seen such obvious quality improvement in two guns that are essentially the same, but one is more expensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giraffe Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Yeah I fixed hire gun CA M4 sportlines while my Prime PTW sat next to me... The CA guns actually put a BB out the barrel when you pull the trigger! loooooooooolkillme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Lozart Posted February 28, 2019 Supporters Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Arwen said: So I was putting a flat hop in my new G&G TR16 when I notice just how different the internals are compared to my Wasp (G&G GR16)! On top is the wasp - retails around £130 Bottom is the TR16, retails around £250. Anyone else seen such obvious quality improvement in two guns that are essentially the same, but one is more expensive? It's almost as if the one that costs almost twice the price is made with better parts and that's why it costs twice as much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arwen Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 Yup, but when £14 quid of hop rubber looks pretty much the same as £3 hop rubber. Airsoft prices can be meaningless 😋 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters ImTriggerHappy Posted February 28, 2019 Supporters Share Posted February 28, 2019 Just now, Arwen said: Yup, but when £14 quid of hop rubber looks pretty much the same as £3 hop rubber. Airsoft prices can be meaningless 😋 Also the fact that most plastic hops are as good if not better than the metal ones. I use the word metal in the loosest term as pot metal is about as good as cement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Lozart Posted March 1, 2019 Supporters Share Posted March 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Arwen said: Yup, but when £14 quid of hop rubber looks pretty much the same as £3 hop rubber. Airsoft prices can be meaningless 😋 Look the same, don't work the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Adolf Hamster Posted March 1, 2019 Supporters Share Posted March 1, 2019 11 hours ago, ImTriggerHappy said: Also the fact that most plastic hops are as good if not better than the metal ones. I use the word metal in the loosest term as pot metal is about as good as cement Thing is just as there's metal and pot metal there's plastic and plastic. I agree that the good short-strand gfrp stuff you get in some guns is every bit the equal of metal (like for example g&g's f2000 hop is very well made) in its application. Unfortunately anything plastic looking tends to just get called plastic but there can be massive differences in quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albiscuit Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Possibly a very ignorant post so keep your flames to yourself.... Does the hop housing material even matter? By those pics, the plastic one looks exactly the same as the metal. the dimensions and shape are identical. Its the rubber and other parts which actually make a difference is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted March 1, 2019 Supporters Share Posted March 1, 2019 48 minutes ago, Albiscuit said: Does the hop housing material even matter? If there's play in the hop arm, either initially or if it wears down, maybe. I stress the maybe, I wouldn't trust the random QC on pot metal parts either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters ImTriggerHappy Posted March 1, 2019 Supporters Share Posted March 1, 2019 49 minutes ago, Albiscuit said: Possibly a very ignorant post so keep your flames to yourself.... Does the hop housing material even matter? By those pics, the plastic one looks exactly the same as the metal. the dimensions and shape are identical. Its the rubber and other parts which actually make a difference is it not? They are definitely the most important parts. It really only makes a difference in the quality of finish and dimensional tolerance because of the air seal and in flexibility. When you get a hop unit that will allow the arm to flex or move under pressure it is next to useless. People think metal is better because they assume it is more rigid than plastic. Truth is a good plastic is rigid enough. So many cast pot metal hops have a lot of play so while rigid the parts shift slightly and ruin consistency. A good machined titanium one is the way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albiscuit Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Cheers I do very little tech work where I can and leave these things to the more informed!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Adolf Hamster Posted March 1, 2019 Supporters Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Albiscuit said: Does the hop housing material even matter? only at the extremes when you're looking at pretty weak plastics, remember there's air trying to squeeze it's way out of every tiny gap and if it can bend its own gap then it will. this is especially relevant if you're talking about trying to push higher fps. 1 hour ago, Albiscuit said: By those pics, the plastic one looks exactly the same as the metal. the dimensions and shape are identical. Its the rubber and other parts which actually make a difference is it not? in those pics you can see some differences, for example if you look at the front around the barrel bushing the metal unit is tighter, the plastic components of the metal hop unit are better finished and whilst yes the visual appearance doesn't matter, if they've taken the time to make it look good odds are they've probably put the effort into the tolerances that do matter which you'd need a micrometer to measure (although the caveat here is some manufacturers use this to their advantage to pedal a shiny but poor quality product) having worked with both the pictured units i'm not a fan of that particular plastic one, it's not a good material (g&g can do much better plastics with glass fibre reinforcement and better tolerances). the metal one is pretty good though. of course if you multiply these small differences over the entire system of a gun it stacks up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steveocee Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 I'm confused??? Why is it surprising that an item that costs twice as much is built better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters ImTriggerHappy Posted March 1, 2019 Supporters Share Posted March 1, 2019 59 minutes ago, Steveocee said: I'm confused??? Why is it surprising that an item that costs twice as much is built better? It is not built better just slightly less worse. It is G&G so just varying grades of shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arwen Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 3 hours ago, Steveocee said: I'm confused??? Why is it surprising that an item that costs twice as much is built better? For the hops, it's surprising in that they both perform pretty much the same as far as I can tell. One just looks better. For an extra £100 or so, I can't help but wonder if all the extras are simply looks, rather than bits that give better real world performance. On paper yes, the more expensive one should perform better. But in reality, I don't see a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Lozart Posted March 1, 2019 Supporters Share Posted March 1, 2019 32 minutes ago, Arwen said: For the hops, it's surprising in that they both perform pretty much the same as far as I can tell. One just looks better. For an extra £100 or so, I can't help but wonder if all the extras are simply looks, rather than bits that give better real world performance. On paper yes, the more expensive one should perform better. But in reality, I don't see a difference. I would say that the higher cost one should perform well for longer. Better components quite often means better durability rather than better "performance". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted March 2, 2019 Supporters Share Posted March 2, 2019 15 hours ago, Lozart said: I would say that the higher cost one should perform well for longer. Better components quite often means better durability rather than better "performance" Could be, but how much would it cost to replace those cheap parts? And I don't mean with better parts, just with equivalents. Seems to me that you could replace the cheap hop and barrel maybe three times before you'd made up the cost to the higher priced gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Lozart Posted March 2, 2019 Supporters Share Posted March 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Rogerborg said: Could be, but how much would it cost to replace those cheap parts? And I don't mean with better parts, just with equivalents. Seems to me that you could replace the cheap hop and barrel maybe three times before you'd made up the cost to the higher priced gun. For a lot of people (such as myself) not having to replace the hop and barrel three times is worth more than the cost of the higher quality parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E21A Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 21 hours ago, ImTriggerHappy said: It is not built better just slightly less worse. It is G&G so just varying grades of shite. 😂😂😂 yea, really shite aren’t they 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters ImTriggerHappy Posted March 2, 2019 Supporters Share Posted March 2, 2019 47 minutes ago, E21A said: 😂😂😂 yea, really shite aren’t they 🙄 Yes actually poor electronics, awful material quality and some of the worst build tolerances in airsoft. The cheap raiders are ok but the higher end is a waste of money compared to others of similar or even less price. Only G&G I like is the Scar, it is to G&G what the G36 is to JG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wo1f Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Agreed. They seem to feed shit too. My G&G UMP is shite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters ImTriggerHappy Posted March 2, 2019 Supporters Share Posted March 2, 2019 Just now, Wo1f said: Agreed. They seem to feed shit too. My G&G UMP is shite All the old boneyard sites used to be full of them. It became a standing joke that on game day some poor young kid always came up holding a broken G&G looking for help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wo1f Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 That’s why I always recommend an ICS sportline as a starter gun. Twice the gun for £20 extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters ImTriggerHappy Posted March 2, 2019 Supporters Share Posted March 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, Wo1f said: That’s why I always recommend an ICS sportline as a starter gun. Twice the gun for £20 extra. Ics are one of my favourites, split gearboxes should be industry standard. Very rare you get a bad one and their quality is spot on except for the hop rubber. That is made from recycled condoms I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wo1f Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said: Ics are one of my favourites, split gearboxes should be industry standard. Very rare you get a bad one and their quality is spot on except for the hop rubber. That is made from recycled condoms I reckon. Agreed. I don’t really do AEG’s, but I’ve had ICS and TM’s. They’re the only ones I’d ever recommend. The split gearbox is fantastic. Especially for a newbie who’s just stripped a piston. It’s a 5 minute job instead of an hour long fuckup. I think if the recoil range had a split gearbox and some more rigid internals, they’d be the ideal AEG You’re right about the hop rubber though. I always swap hop rubbers on every one of my guns, being a bit of a range whore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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