ThePlayer Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 I want to buy two broken/faulty M4s for filming, and then spray them black for realism, but do you need a licence for that, since they are broken? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulpiness Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Yes. The problem is they're RIFs, Realistic Imitation Fire-arms, same as deactivated guns, you have to have a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePlayer Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 A reason? What do you mean by that? Does it mean I can buy them without a licence as long as I have a reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted January 13, 2019 Supporters Share Posted January 13, 2019 You don't need a "licence", because none exists. No offence is committed by purchasing or attempting to purchase either a realistic or a non-realistic (two toned) imitation firearm. However, it's an offence for a seller (business or private) to sell a realistic imitation firearm. It's the exact same offence if you modify a non-realistic imitation firearm into a realistic imitation firearm: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/36 The seller, or you if you modify one, can adduce a defence to that offence. The allowed defences include: (b) the purposes of theatrical performances and of rehearsals for such performances; (c) the production of films (within the meaning of Part 1 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (c. 48)_see section 5B of that Act); (d) the production of television programmes (within the meaning of the Communications Act 2003 (c. 21)_see section 405(1) of that Act); https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/37 If you're doing this as part of a film-making course, your educational institute should be able to provide bona fides. Likewise with your company if you're doing it commercially. If it's for a YouTube channel or similar, you're on shakier ground. However, whether anyone would ever know or care is a valid question. In practice, that'll come down to how and where you use the RIFs, but I'm sure you're aware of that. Thanks for taking this issue seriously, by the way. Many people would just have gone ahead and done it without considering the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePlayer Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 Thanks! I was thinking of spray painting and making more realistic in general this one https://bbguns4less.co.uk/products/broken-faulty-8907a-m4-ris-rail-spring-rifle-in-blue.html (I want to get two) and I don't know what to do in terms of law. Can I film in public? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Moderator Jedi_Master Posted January 13, 2019 Head Moderator Share Posted January 13, 2019 Taking black (RIF) guns out in public will make your film realistic, especially when armed response officers turn up to arrest those involved following phone call(s) from concerned members of the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePlayer Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 Oh. I guess putting up "filming in progress all guns are fake " won't do it? Is there a way to not get the police called? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDcase Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 No, it would have to be officially done to be in public areas. You'd have to liase with the local Council and Police to arrange filming. This would involve a lot of forms and money so unlikely I'm afraid... Converting an IF to a RIF by painting black could cause some difficult questions if they came to the attention of authorities. ie. neighbor calls police seeing someone with a 'gun' next door... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Tackle Posted January 13, 2019 Supporters Share Posted January 13, 2019 just No, take rifs in public places without proper lawful arrangements will end up with a criminal record, maybe even prison time given the current climate, or maybe they'll just shoot you lol. if you can be a little flexible on your filming location, why not consider contacting a suitable airsoft site to see if you can use their facilities ?, there may be a fee but it'll be way safer than what your proposing, & its likely there'll be plenty of rifs available & maybe some well kitted out extras ? definitely worth a punt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted January 13, 2019 Supporters Share Posted January 13, 2019 3 hours ago, ThePlayer said: I don't know what to do in terms of law. For filming, that's probably a question for a different forum, although we do have a couple of artistic types on here. 3 hours ago, ThePlayer said: Can I film in public? You can film in public. The issue is possessing an imitation firearm (real or otherwise) in public, which is an offence under the Firearms Act 1968 S19: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/section/19 You need a "reasonable excuse". What constitutes that is entirely up to the constable, CPS and magistrates / judge if it all goes wrong. Again, probably better asked on a theatrical forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 There are two main parts to filming, getting the guns themselves as RIFs and the filming itself Filmwork is a valid defence to purchase a RIF, and would also be valid for ‘modifying’ an IF by painting it black. However ‘filming’ itself is not likely to persuade a seller, it would need to be for part of a proper production. Please note that not particularly with airsoft but the film work element was abused by an individual who used the secrecy of Bond films to allow him to be vague about his purchases and to obtain and illegally modify blank firers, deactivated firearms for reactivation in DDS his position in the criminal arms dealing world Retailers will be cagey about ‘film’ purchasers Youtube isn’t suitable for the defence and student filmmakers don’t meet the criteria that most sellers would want, though university media departments may. Loan props can be obtained via the course Filming in a public place does not legally need permits or licences, but most/many ‘public’ places are private locations with public access. (E.g. a park is probably owned by the council) There may be signs not allowing you to film, or an ‘authority’ might tell you not to. Making arrangements in advance (with the owners) and notifiying other interested parties (like the police) plus having documentation about those would justify that you have permission Doing it with guns ups the ante - even if they are dayglo IFs, and there is a legislation that can drop you in a lot of trouble https://www.theiac.org.uk/resourcesnew/filming-in-public/filming-in-public.html On the ‘reality’ element in a film, we enter a cinema to accept that things are not real. It will depend on what you are making but a student film for example is judged on creativity and technicality - the realism of a gun is very low there. Look at some films such as Jesus Christ Superstar - the Romans’ weapons and uniforms are far from period, and that is covered in the opening scene with a coach load of performers Or Star Wars, which for Hollywood was a very low budget film that sourced weapons from prop departments, hence an abundance of WW2 & 69s/70s weapons with SciFi things stuck on them. This then followed into the series War films in the 50s/60s had Germans driving American half tracks and British scout cars, and in the 80s the Russians flew gazelle gunships Filling with airsoft guns in public is not the best idea, check out filmmaking forums, ask your university lecturer - and if you aren’t a film student then find your nearest film students to find out who to ask for better advice Popping into the local police station would be helpful as if you go ahead it is them who will be getting calls or having a bobby pass by and Ben curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimSqueeker Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Apart from the sagely advice above regarding the Rif's in a public place and the all to likely encounter with an ARV, I cannot believe that everyone has missed the elephant in the room that is "purchase from a shop with BBguns in the title".😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulpiness Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 3 hours ago, GrimSqueeker said: Apart from the sagely advice above regarding the Rif's in a public place and the all to likely encounter with an ARV, I cannot believe that everyone has missed the elephant in the room that is "purchase from a shop with BBguns in the title".😁 I live in scotland, that does need a license. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 7 hours ago, Vulpiness said: I live in scotland, that does need a license. Bahahaha Scotland you say....You need a license for any air gun out there, don't you? Anything that exceeds 1joule needs a license. The Scottish government hasn't come after airsofters yet I don't think, but they have gone after air rifle users. 1J is 328fps @0.2g So by definition, most of my airsoft guns would require a license.http://www.scotland.police.uk/about-us/finance/service-fees-and-charges/firearms/air-weapon-licensing/legislation/ Quote I PARTICIPATE IN AIRSOFT AND I AM A MEMBER OF UKARA, DO I NEED A CERTIFICATE? Airsoft guns with a muzzle energy below 2.5 joules (or 1.3 joules for fully automatic guns) are not covered by the 2015 Act. These guns are already controlled by the firearms legislation, notably the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006. Airsoft guns above these muzzle energies may require a certificate – you should contact the police for advice. 1 If they ever come after airsoft then they already have the statement written there to prosecute. If you didn't get advice, and it's hot, they have you. I'm very glad the rest of the UK doesn't have those laws. It's the one reason UKARA is vital. If the rest of the UK follows Scotland with Air gun licensing and then the police decide that all RIF's over 1J are illegal without a license it will royally fuck the status quo. We'll either all be criminals, or we will all be forced to downgrade and prove that our guns chrono under the J limit. Guns that creep or that can be modded quickly without tools will be outlawed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulpiness Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 4 hours ago, Iceni said: Bahahaha Scotland you say....You need a license for any air gun out there, don't you? Anything that exceeds 1joule needs a license. The Scottish government hasn't come after airsofters yet I don't think, but they have gone after air rifle users. 1J is 328fps @0.2g So by definition, most of my airsoft guns would require a license.http://www.scotland.police.uk/about-us/finance/service-fees-and-charges/firearms/air-weapon-licensing/legislation/ If they ever come after airsoft then they already have the statement written there to prosecute. If you didn't get advice, and it's hot, they have you. I'm very glad the rest of the UK doesn't have those laws. It's the one reason UKARA is vital. If the rest of the UK follows Scotland with Air gun licensing and then the police decide that all RIF's over 1J are illegal without a license it will royally fuck the status quo. We'll either all be criminals, or we will all be forced to downgrade and prove that our guns chrono under the J limit. Guns that creep or that can be modded quickly without tools will be outlawed as well. I'm pretty okay with it, there were allot of scivvy chavvy cunts, who carried them about to threaten old ladies and piss off rivals. Police Scotland are pretty chill, in scotland airsoft guns are still covered by the VCR, it's a parcel and overlapping defense, and that's not it, even then, they'd just give you a warning tell you to pay up £75. The 1J limit only applies to full autos anyway, and most sites do act rule out AEGs beyond 320, for SA or bolt action it's 1.5J It would actually be easier to get an airgun license than qualify under VCR. "Collecting" is an excuse. The VCR Still applies, which is why they have my support, paintball guns are also fully exempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted January 14, 2019 Supporters Share Posted January 14, 2019 5 hours ago, Iceni said: Bahahaha Scotland you say....You need a license for any air gun out there, don't you? Anything that exceeds 1joule needs a license. The Scottish government hasn't come after airsofters yet I don't think, but they have gone after air rifle users. 1J is 328fps @0.2g Chap, you actually quoted the part that says 2.5J or 1.3J for fully auto. 1J is Northern Ireland, for all guns including springers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin proffrink Posted January 14, 2019 Root Admin Share Posted January 14, 2019 1J is also what a lot of American YouTubers quote as being the UK limit because they're a bit dense, so I can forgive OP if he got into it through watching videos (which many do/have). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePlayer Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 Ok. There is a airsoft site nearby that I can hire. It also hosts open weekends and some role play stuff. I was going to have this all at night, and the guns I want to buy are really dark blue, which will fit in with night filter I will add on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, ThePlayer said: Ok. There is a airsoft site nearby that I can hire. It also hosts open weekends and some role play stuff. I was going to have this all at night, and the guns I want to buy are really dark blue, which will fit in with night filter I will add on. Ask the site about rental guns and you will save on budget Don’t trust web shop gallery photos on coloured guns, they may not be the colour in the pictures on the website, and note that dark blue is not an approved colour under the VCRA transparent bright red bright orange bright blue bright yellow bright green bright pink bright purple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted January 15, 2019 Supporters Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 hour ago, ThePlayer said: There is a airsoft site nearby that I can hire. As a filming location? Smart move. If you're doing that anyway, why not ask if they have any rental guns that you can use for filming. It's not like they'll be doing anything else with them if it's closed for use as a set. 1 hour ago, Tommikka said: dark blue is not an approved colour under the VCRA Not OP's problem, if BBgunz4lezz are prepared to sell them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 3 hours ago, Rogerborg said: Not OP's problem, if BBgunz4lezz are prepared to sell them. Quite to my thoughts too But I was thinking more BBguns4less, BBgunz4lezz is sparking my curiousity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Here's a case of people not thinking ahead about what they are doing in public..... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/16/fake-kidnapping-causes-police-force-send-armed-teams-helicopter/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted January 17, 2019 Supporters Share Posted January 17, 2019 17 hours ago, Tommikka said: Here's a case of people not thinking ahead about what they are doing in public..... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/16/fake-kidnapping-causes-police-force-send-armed-teams-helicopter/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePlayer Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 4 hours ago, Rogerborg said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimSqueeker Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 22 hours ago, Tommikka said: Here's a case of people not thinking ahead about what they are doing in public..... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/16/fake-kidnapping-causes-police-force-send-armed-teams-helicopter/ Exactly.... if you ask me the company responsible should have been billed for the cost of the emergency services response let alone a "public order".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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