How to tell when you've been shot with a hot gun?

[Mathias33]

1 hour ago, Game Cam said:

 

When I went up to play with my mate at Skirmish Nottingham they were doing random chrono while they did mag checks (checking every gun was empty).

I got pulled to one side for it, my Long Barrel M4 shoots 285 so I was golden but I felt a lot better that they were doing it.

They do the same at the site I go to. It’s the players responsibility to chrono their gun before the day starts, the marshalls then do spot checks throughout the day and if you’re using a hot gun then you’re asked to leave as they have to assume you’re using it on purpose.

[Arwen]

1 hour ago, Adolf Hamster said:

plan on doing a little research into bb weight vs range from a theoretical stand point

 

You may already have seen this, but if not, this might help http://mackila.com/airsoft/atp/index.htm

[gasman]

Now that's real science love it. If you want to see pain and suffering then look at the Noveriche video when he is being shot with his own gun at ever closer distances to determine MED. laugh

Forgot to say bear skin.

[Rogerborg]

3 hours ago, Arwen said:

A number of snipers at my local use .3-.36'

 

I went straight to 0.46g, and was surprised to find that my bargain basement MB-03 could lift them.  They're significantly denser than 0.25g, to the extent that you can easily distinguish them by hefting them in your hand.  They're about the limit of what I'd consider appropriate for airsoft use.  0.5g+ is getting uncomfortably close to metal density.  Tank shells use uranium and tungsten cores to penetrate; it's not something that we want to ape in airsoft.

[Adolf Hamster]

18 minutes ago, Arwen said:

 

You may already have seen this, but if not, this might help http://mackila.com/airsoft/atp/index.htm

 

i hadn't seen it, but it looks pretty interesting. he's gone into a bit more depth than i had planned to in terms of defining an effective range.

 

my plan is simply with hop set for 20cm of rise, what the maximum range is comparitively for different bb weights.

 

atm i have about 100m for a .2g bb annd 118m for a .5g bb, both starting from a 1m height and being hopped to rise an additional 20cm.

 

admittedly that range is firing level and max range is when it hits the ground, and at 1j (completely ignoring joule creep)

[clumpyedge]

Can I just ask...

 

If you were that concerned why didn't you speak to a marshal? If the gun was hot you potentially could have stopped someone else being hurt if it was indeed hot.

[BoomingHedgie]

8 minutes ago, clumpyedge said:

Can I just ask...

 

If you were that concerned why didn't you speak to a marshal? If the gun was hot you potentially could have stopped someone else being hurt if it was indeed hot.

Because I wasn't sure whether I should have said something hence why I posted this topic.

 

If it happens again I will probably say something just to be on the safe side 👍

[clumpyedge]

Just now, BoomingHedgie said:

Because I wasn't sure whether I should have said something hence why I posted this topic.

 

If it happens again I will probably say something just to be on the safe side 👍

 

Fair enough.

 

[BoomingHedgie]

13 minutes ago, clumpyedge said:

 

Fair enough.

 

I get the feeling that you're not angry, you're just disappointed.

[Nick G]

I had a lovely little sniper duel on Sunday . we were beyond MED but not by loads, I reckon we were about 45 meters or so. My rifle was right on the site limit and if it was who I think it was his is pretty close too. Both lobbing weighty BB's , so whoever got hit first was going to know it. And I did ! he got me right in the forehead, I don't get on with face pro or hats when I snipe, and it stung like a good en , vision went a bit fuzzy for a minute or two as well. It was a bloody good shot though as we were both well dug in. Got a lovely lump to show for it. As others have said I think it depends on where you get hit , bony areas do sting more and are more likely to bleed , and how easily an individual bruises.

 

But Yes , if you think a gun is running hot talk to a marshal, hopefully it an honest mistake and whoever is using it doesn't know or its actually ok and he was closer than you thought.

[clumpyedge]

4 hours ago, Nick G said:

I had a lovely little sniper duel on Sunday . we were beyond MED but not by loads, I reckon we were about 45 meters or so. My rifle was right on the site limit and if it was who I think it was his is pretty close too. Both lobbing weighty BB's , so whoever got hit first was going to know it. And I did ! he got me right in the forehead, I don't get on with face pro or hats when I snipe, and it stung like a good en , vision went a bit fuzzy for a minute or two as well. It was a bloody good shot though as we were both well dug in. Got a lovely lump to show for it. As others have said I think it depends on where you get hit , bony areas do sting more and are more likely to bleed , and how easily an individual bruises.

 

But Yes , if you think a gun is running hot talk to a marshal, hopefully it an honest mistake and whoever is using it doesn't know or its actually ok and he was closer than you thought.

 

 

Lets also hope they know about joule creep

[Druid799]

‘How to tell when you’ve been shot with a hot gun ?’

 

It fecking hurts ? 

[BoomingHedgie]

11 hours ago, Druid799 said:

‘How to tell when you’ve been shot with a hot gun ?’

 

It fecking hurts ? 

 

Haha!

 

What would you rate it on a scale of 1 to "I want my mum"?

[EvilMonkee]

On 06/08/2018 at 18:13, Adolf Hamster said:

 

well its an interesting point about engagement distances, i plan on doing a little research into bb weight vs range from a theoretical stand point as it'll be interesting to see what the difference between slow and fast is when you add in the magnus effect, drag etc.

 

would be interesting to see how much energy a sniper has at 20m compared to an aeg at point blank for example when using heavier bb's.

 

Check out Code Red Airsoft FPS Calculator - shows Joules values etc for different weights and FPS

[Druid799]

1 hour ago, BoomingHedgie said:

 

Haha!

 

What would you rate it on a scale of 1 to "I want my mum"?

Well to answer this question I would use this My own personal variation on the rule of 9’s chart we used in the army to asses burns .

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, EvilMonkee said:

Check out Code Red Airsoft FPS Calculator - shows Joules values etc for different weights and FPS

 

It's very handy, but what it doesn't show is how much higher your Joules will creep when you switch to a heavier BB, how much more energy a heavier BB will retain at any given range or how much more hurtier (sorry for the technical term) denser BBs will be even without Joule creep.

 

I've never seen it seriously discussed, but I'm wondering if there's a case to be made for limiting BB mass.  My CQB site already limits to 0.25g because denser BBs wreck the site.  I'm only just barely comfortable using 0.46g outdoors: I wouldn't be too upset if a site were to limit to 0.4g or even less.  If you spend any time watching sniper videos, you'll see examples of eyepro being shot off of people's faces by sniper BBs.

[BoomingHedgie]

3 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

Well to answer this question I would use this My own personal variation on the rule of 9’s chart we used in the army to asses burns .

 

Haha that is amazing!

 

Mummy! is the best one by far 😂

[clumpyedge]

1 hour ago, BoomingHedgie said:

 

Haha that is amazing!

 

Mummy! is the best one by far 😂

 

 

Pretty similar to the tattoo pain threshold chat... personally I've started handing out bitch mints to people that cant handle their hits..

[Adolf Hamster]

4 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

It's very handy, but what it doesn't show is how much higher your Joules will creep when you switch to a heavier BB, how much more energy a heavier BB will retain at any given range or how much more hurtier (sorry for the technical term) denser BBs will be even without Joule creep.

 

I've never seen it seriously discussed, but I'm wondering if there's a case to be made for limiting BB mass.  My CQB site already limits to 0.25g because denser BBs wreck the site.  I'm only just barely comfortable using 0.46g outdoors: I wouldn't be too upset if a site were to limit to 0.4g or even less.  If you spend any time watching sniper videos, you'll see examples of eyepro being shot off of people's faces by sniper BBs.

 

 

well it's still a work in progress but that's what i've been trying to answer.

 

if you take a look at the attached spreadsheet it shows the range of a bunch of different weights at a given fps, and you can set the MED as either an energy (ie how far before said bb hits with the same authority as a gun of said energy at point blank) or as a distance (in which case it tells you the energy)

 

it doesn't take into account joule creep although i have listed the energy values as the fps equivalent for a 0.2g bb just because that's a unit we're familiar with.

 

assuming i haven't made a mistake (+1 e cookie to anyone who finds one) the results are relatively interesting, as you can see i have it set for a site with a 350fps standard limit, a 500fps sniper limit, and a 20m MED for snipers and a sniper using o.5g bb's at the edge of his MED will feel like a normal player at point blank.

BB range study.xlsm

 

joule creep is a tricky one to answer, as it depends on a lot of complex factors ( such as how much blow-by of the bb there is, the pressure drop off as the bb travels down the barrel etc), the best i could do there is a very simple demonstration of roughly what's going on in a gas gun with a constant pressure supply but the creep values aren't going to be very representative of real life.

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

a site with a 350fps standard limit, a 500fps sniper limit, and a 20m MED for snipers and a sniper using o.5g bb's at the edge of his MED will feel like a normal player at point blank

 

Going by the raw energy, yes.  But would you prefer to be poked with the sharp end of a pencil, or the eraser?

 

By the way, thanks for putting that effort in.  I'm going to send the kids off to bed, turn the lights down low, settle down with a glass of wine, and get my nerd on over it.

[Adolf Hamster]

1 minute ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Going by the raw energy, yes.  But would you prefer to be poked with the sharp end of a pencil, or the eraser?

 

By the way, thanks for putting that effort in.  I'm going to send the kids off to bed, turn the lights down low, settle down with a glass of wine, and get my nerd on over it.

 

true, i'm not making any claims about the effect of heavy/slow vs light/fast in terms of the terminal ballistics, although my preconception from what i've seen of real steel ballistics is that heavy+slow is probably worse.

 

no need for thanks, i've not been pewing recently and i desperately needed something to stop me tinkering with my guns (and likely messing something up), plus a refresher in the ol' excel is always handy.

[Game Cam]

This seems overly complex for the result of "if it hurts more than usual ask a marshal" 

 

....but now I'm curious to see the results.

[Adolf Hamster]

5 minutes ago, Game Cam said:

This seems overly complex for the result of "if it hurts more than usual ask a marshal" 

 

....but now I'm curious to see the results.

 

well it kinda started with me wondering what the effect of the magnus effect would have on range with different bb weights.

 

my current champion theory is there's a range of velocities that you'll get enough lift for a certain hop setting and because a heavier bb takes longer to slow down it'll stay getting lifted for longer hence the extra range.

 

mainly because for a long time i thought the lightest bb would get the most range (and as a result ran .2's but i wasn't factoring in how well the magnus effect worked at lifting the bb.

 

basically it was as much for my own understanding as anything else.

[CiderPunk]

surely 1.3 joules of energy transferred over the same surface area would feel the same regardless of the weight/speed? this calls for practical experimentation!

[gasman]

Are you volunteering as test candidate.😃