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Osprey MK4 - Legal?


AshOnSnow
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When I started I used to wear an Osprey MK4 vest with AEGIS soft kevlar. Label on the kevlar says it'll stop a 44 magnum.

 

Fun stuff as it could take the beating leaving you feeling fine. Hot as hell when out of shape (may not be the armours fault though :lol:)

 

Comfy though and not too heavy but heavy enough for me. I would say I couldn't feel the hits but I could still tell when I was hit. Either by noise or a slight vibration. Never had an issue. If in doubt I'd just call a hit. No biggy. Appreciated the break tbh. :lol:

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On 20/02/2019 at 19:28, Immortal said:

When I started I used to wear an Osprey MK4 vest with AEGIS soft kevlar. Label on the kevlar says it'll stop a 44 magnum.

 

Fun stuff as it could take the beating leaving you feeling fine. Hot as hell when out of shape (may not be the armours fault though :lol:)

 

Comfy though and not too heavy but heavy enough for me. I would say I couldn't feel the hits but I could still tell when I was hit. Either by noise or a slight vibration. Never had an issue. If in doubt I'd just call a hit. No biggy. Appreciated the break tbh. :lol:

 

Yeah IIIa armour copes well with Airsoft BBs 😂

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4 hours ago, AshOnSnow said:

 

Yeah IIIa armour copes well with Airsoft BBs 😂

 

LOL :lol: Yeah, the beating was me bouncing off walls to stop rather than the BBs. Then again this was in Croydon, you need armour round there.

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hi there, ive been collecting military surplus for the best part of 3 years now and i can say with certainty if its on Ebay its likely surplus. what surplus is is when the military or police decides they either have too much of a particular piece of gear or if that gear is old and needs replacing (may not even be used but typically stuff gets cycled out every 5 years or so) they will decommission it. when an item is decommissioned they are often auctioned by the MOD. if its on ebay its decommissioned and no longer fit for military service, but will typically be brand new. additionally MK4 osprey is no longer standard issue so its likely deemed as obsolete. the exception to this rule is the kevlar filler and ceramic plates for the osprey vest. those are very rare because when soldiers take home their vests they arent allowed to take body armour components with them. 

TLDR: the stuffs decommissioned and not stolen from the military so its fine.

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It’s easy enough to get hold of out of service body armours - BA now uses virtus as you probably already know. It wouldn’t shock me that a few QM’s out there will flog them off, especially if a unit / battalion is handing / taking over. When I was de-kitted they only checked virtus equipment, training plates and respirator  as you have to sign the real plates out from the CQM. 
 

I don’t see why you’d even want full plates for airsoft. Especially Osprey, them things are heavy and uncomfortable! Haha 

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So plates (whether it be ECBA, Osprey or Virtus) are classed as ACTO and you will find the bizzys get extremely twitchy about civvy's owning it. 

The plate carriers are not.

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On 14/03/2018 at 21:55, Rogerborg said:

  Otherwise this is a very silly thread fretting over nothing.

Seem to be quite a few of these popping up lately, along with a big influx of new members (I'm aware the op isn't a new member, but neither is his question, it relates to every bit of kit used by the military  that at one time was restricted for sale, & then later on wasn't), obviously new members is good, but I wish they'd take some time to read through the forums before posting up droll threads that have been asked too many times before, or overpriced classifieds 😕

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So: can anyone find relevant UK legislation?  We need primary legislation (an Act) that contains the word "offence", plus possibly secondary legislation (Regulations) that define what's prohibited.

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1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

So: can anyone find relevant UK legislation?  We need primary legislation (an Act) that contains the word "offence", plus possibly secondary legislation (Regulations) that define what's prohibited.

I don't think there's a UK legislation, just the fact that unless the mod releases kit for financial disposal, it remains first line current generation issue kit & shouldn't be finding itself on civvy street, any that does is obviously stolen in some way, hence why the mp have been cracking down on outlets.

Pretty black & white generally ?

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2 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

So: can anyone find relevant UK legislation?  We need primary legislation (an Act) that contains the word "offence", plus possibly secondary legislation (Regulations) that define what's prohibited.

 

If you get caught with MOD property that wasn't properly disposed of (I do not know what that actually means) you risk becoming familiar with the Theft Act 1968 and if you are really playing silly buggers the Export Control Act 2002 may also be relevant. 

 

Edit: should clarify this isnt so much about a specific item but rather how you came to posess said item. For example the only legislation relevant to night vision equipment is with regards to exports, but owning stolen MOD night vision has gotten, and probably will continue to get, people in trouble. 

 

Edit again: scotland does not allow you to use 'light intensifying, heat-sensitive or other special sighting device' with refence to shooting deer. But you get my point, i hope.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

 

If you get caught with MOD property that wasn't properly disposed of (I do not know what that actually means) 

 

There is only one route out of the MoD for surplus items, and that’s via Defence Equipment Sales Authority contracts - formerly know as the Disposal Sales Agency/Authority) 


These ranges from basic waste disposal / recycling to tanks, helicopters and warships etc.  

 

One example is:

http://www.mod-sales.com/direct/

 

Officially anything issued is to be returned to the QM, and the items you keep when you leave are meant to be retained for your reserve commitment.

If appropriate it’s reissued, if not appropriate such as skin contact clothing it’s meant to go in the magic QMs box and backloaded when full.

In reality items are not exchanged, or they are pulled straight back from the magic box.

When someone leaves they either hand back everything they can possibly get the QM to take or they take it straight to the local car boot / eBay.

The RMP monitor eBay etc but do so on a common sense basis ignoring the odd bit of uniform.  But sell unusal items or regularly sell what’s clearly coming out of the QMs back door and you’ll be attracting attention.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

owning stolen MOD night vision has gotten, and probably will continue to get, people in trouble

 

Which people, when, and how much trouble?

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10 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Which people, when, and how much trouble?

 

I cant give you references for what GeorgePlayAirsoft is talking about but i remember back around 2012 there was a lot of dramas with UK and US kit being found on dead Taliban fighters. The kit was acquired in the US and UK and sent out to them. 

I'm not sure owning any of the kit is an actual offence but i do know at least from the military side of things selling it or "losing" it is.

 

A mate of mine wrote his motor off on the the old A1 a few years ago and because the civvy bizzys found his GSR in the boot the CoC got extremely twitchy that he may have had other ACTO in the boot which got nicked before they got to the motor. 

 

He didn't but he got bounced hard for it.

 

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15 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Which people, when, and how much trouble?

 

"He was handed a 12 month sentence, suspended for two years. He was also given a curfew, preventing him from leaving the house between 10pm and 7am, as well as being ordered to pay £852 in costs and carry out 200 hours of unpaid work."

https://www.ilkestonadvertiser.co.uk/news/crime/ebay-soldier-is-spared-prison-1-3971247

 

 

"Barratt, who was dishonourably discharged from the Army last month, was jailed for 20 months."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-25741146

 

 

"He [Stevens] was jailed for two years today, along with Davenport who received 22 months and Suffield who was given an 18 month sentence suspended for two years."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2410242/soldiers-sentenced-kit-stolen-explosives-night-vision-goggles-sas-base-sold/

 

 

There was (at least) a RMP investigation into stolen goods called operation embroil not specific to night vision but gives you an idea I suppose. 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/stolen-military-hardware-being-sold-off-on-ebay-7687501.html 

 

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Word counts: 

 

"Sold" / "sell" / "selling": 7 times

 

"Bought" / "own" / "owned": 0 times

 

Who has been prosecuted and convicted for buying and owning, rather than selling?

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8 hours ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

The chap in the first link did, those were just what i found on google. Let me know if you find any yourself

His offence was handling stolen goods 

6 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

Word counts: 

 

"Sold" / "sell" / "selling": 7 times

 

"Bought" / "own" / "owned": 0 times

 

Who has been prosecuted and convicted for buying and owning, rather than selling?

In those cases it’s not particularly the buying & selling but how they had acquired them

 

In this other case the problem is the nature of the items rather than the theft:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40774233

 

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As in "what, you telling me these military issue gen 3+ nvg's that I bought from a geezer in the pub for £300 are nicked ?, Surely not"

😜

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5 hours ago, Tackle said:

As in "what, you telling me these military issue gen 3+ nvg's that I bought from a geezer in the pub for £300 are nicked ?, Surely not"

😜

 

You didn't haggle? Or ask for a VAT receipt? 🤣

 

 

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14 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

Word counts: 

 

"Sold" / "sell" / "selling": 7 times

 

"Bought" / "own" / "owned": 0 times

 

Who has been prosecuted and convicted for buying and owning, rather than selling?

 

Think you have missed the woods for the trees, though its good to see how your amazing brain works behind the scenes. Ctl+f. Genius.

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Truth is the mod/MP's prosecute what they catch/prove on the inside (with the obvious exception of civilians workers), everything on the outside is down to the regional CPS, who will generally only pursue what they feel they can guarantee the outcome............there's a reason why the best prosecutors become defence barristers, & the rest work for the CPS lol 😏 .

 

If they can't prove your the man that walked the kit off of mod property, or as a buyer you did so KNOWING it was hot, there's little or no case to answer/pursue.

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What Tackle said guys, this is fairly basic stuff under the Theft Act (can't remember which year but it was the 60s) - basically if the courts can prove you likely knew something's stolen property, you can be charged with handling stolen goods.

 

If a man walks into a pub and offers me a Rolex for £100 - something very clearly far from a normal sale of a genuine Rolex - It could be argued in court that I would have surely known it was either a dodgy watch, or stolen off someone's wrist an hour earlier. I would be prosecuted for handling stolen goods. 

 

If someone was to sell me the Rolex at a jeweler or similar, with a certificate of authenticity and any other required paperwork etc. before the police informing me the watch was stolen the month prior, I would be unlikely to be charged with handling stolen goods nor would I likely get convicted of the offense if it did go to court (imo, standard caveats apply)

 

The same, imo, applies for Airsoft and military goods. As an airsofter with interest in military kit in general, my general knowledge around kit, where it was issued, what's surplus etc., is higher than the average person. If I were to see some AN/PVS21s being sold on Ebay for far, far less than they're worth, purchase them and get interviewed by the police, I'd imagine they would be able to eventually establish that I had a reasonable belief that those goggles could be stolen. The rest is up to the courts, and whether they can secure the conviction. 

 

E: Just checked, Theft Act 1968

 

Quote

A person handles stolen goods if (otherwise than in the course of stealing), knowing or believing them to be stolen goods he dishonestly receives the goods, or dishonestly undertakes or assists in their retention, removal, disposal or realisation by or for the benefit of another person, or if he arranges to do so

 

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