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SquashyTundra

Who would be at fault?

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The other week after a game I fired off the chambered BB and turned on the safety switch on my VSR before entering the safe zone - I however left the magazine in as I figured if the spring wasn't compressed, no BB chambered and the trigger couldn't be pulled then I won't be able to hurt anyone. So I set it down in the safe zone and started managing my kit, some kid took my vsr and pointed it at someone, pulled the bolt and attempted to fire it (thinking he would only be dry-firing) but luckily he didn't take off the safety before hand. At this point I took the gun from him, took it outside and cleared it completely.

 

If the kid had have shot someone, who would be at fault? Me for leaving the magazine in or him for pulling the trigger?

 

I've learned from this mistake and understand that random people may take it and potentially cause damage - I now make sure the magazine is removed from the VSR, as I have always done with my other RIFs

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Personally, I think leaving the mag in was a bad idea. I get your reasons for not being fussed (chamber being empty etc), but if something *had* happened then it would raise questions as to why you had a gun with the mag in, in the SafeZone. It doesn't reflect well on you.

Glad you've learned from that.

 

Ultimately the fault would lie with the person who pulled the trigger (IMHO).

Chances are that if he didn't check the safety (which is likely, who would pull the trigger knowing it was on Safe?), then he probably didn't think to check the chamber was cleared.

 

It was an accident waiting to happen, glad no one was hurt!

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Yeah I'm pretty glad no one was hurt, I just hadn't considered someone else coming along and using my kit without me knowing.

 

Anyway, thanks to both your replies, just wanted a wider view on the circumstances

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While, I guess, the other person would be at fault, he probably would have tried to pass some blame onto you. As mentioned above, it is almost always a rules of sites that mags must be removed; although i do know of a few sites that allow you to leave mags in holstered pistols...

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There should be no one pointing gun at anyone or holding finger on trigger in safe zone not to mention having mag/bb in.

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That could have ended with a potential serious injury. It's sort of the old chaos theory. The mag should not have been inserted at all in the safe zone. This warrants that there is no danger whatsoever. What if he did switch the safety off? If the rules of the site were being followed properly, there would have been no fear at all of any probable dangers of some kid acting irresponsible. Yes, he should have not acted like that in any way. But, providing ammunition as an asset to that scenario is down to you, i'm afraid. It is your firearm and you should maintain complete responsibility for it at all times. However, luckily no-one was harmed. So, water under the bridge and a lesson to heed.

 

Also, using your kit without your knowing is bang out of order!

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Exactly this.....

 

I was there at Absolute, it was a horrible thing to witness, I will be taking zero chances, the only way someone will be hurt with my gun is when I chuck it at them.

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Yeah I had a look at that, it's what made me think of this incident again. One lapse of judgement on my part could have wound up in a scenario like these kids have experienced.

 

See, my view on it was that once I fired off the chambered round there was no way another BB could get in there without me pulling back the bolt so I left the mag in whilst I got the rest of my kit ready to reload Everything - Stupidity I know, but it isn't like an AEG, where even after removing a magazine there will still be 3-4 BBs ready to be fired in the gun, I should have factored in that others would piss around with the rifle after I had left it down.

 

Regardless, thanks all for your contribution.

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At the sites I attend its always "mags out and fire a few times". That is the gun is clear and there is no way it could have a BB in the chamber loaded at any point. While somewhat based around AEGs as a practice its a good safety position to always treat airsoft weapons as much like real guns as possible, you don't leave those lying around with a loaded magazine in either.

 

There is this great little youtube video I saw a while ago (I can't find it now) which is from a gun shop showing all these people coming in with their guns and pulling them out for some purpose. Dumb things like "Do you have a grip for this..." and then out comes a concealed handgun. They sweep the muzzle around the room or past the shop keeper and then they hand it over to the shop keeper and say its not loaded and the keep unloads the magazine, racks the slide and out comes a bullet. They then put that bullet in their jar on the counter with the notice about loaded guns.

 

Always treat your airsoft rifle like its a real gun, that is empty out the magazine and clear the chamber. You always do this, not because you need to do it to make the gun safe, you don't. You do it because gun safety is that we do these things and it gives us multiple levels of safety. Yet despite doing all that we still shouldn't dry fire in the safe zone, you need to test electrics stick some eye pro on and go and shoot in the chrono area/beginning of the zone, it'll take 30 seconds but its safe. Always use redundant safety because its human to make mistakes.

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Brightcandle, pretty sure this is the video you're speaking of? Saw it not too long ago:

 

 

Yep that is the one.

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If someone got hurt the blame is on YOU. It's your weapon you have to clear it and make it safe. You failed to do that. You then watched someone pick your gun up aim it then pull the trigger then decided to take it off him. It's not a error leaving a mag in and letting someone pick it up and aim it.

 

 

In short your a fucking idiot.

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If someone got hurt the blame is on YOU. It's your weapon you have to clear it and make it safe. You failed to do that. You then watched someone pick your gun up aim it then pull the trigger then decided to take it off him. It's not a error leaving a mag in and letting someone pick it up and aim it.

 

 

In short your a f*cking idiot.

With all the inferences you've chosen to include, not sure he's the only idiot; you've called him an idiot after including at least two "facts" which you've 'made up'. For shame.

 

I agree, ultimately the fault is with the guns owner if the person that picked up the gun was not legally an adult.

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With all the inferences you've chosen to include, not sure he's the only idiot; you've called him an idiot after including at least two "facts" which you've 'made up'. For shame.

 

I agree, ultimately the fault is with the guns owner if the person that picked up the gun was not legally an adult.

What facts did I make up?

 

The guy said in his post he left a mag in. He also let someone pick his gun up pull the bolt and aim it.

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If someone got hurt the blame is on YOU. It's your weapon you have to clear it and make it safe. You failed to do that. You then watched someone pick your gun up aim it then pull the trigger then decided to take it off him. It's not a error leaving a mag in and letting someone pick it up and aim it.

 

 

In short your a fucking idiot.

 

Let's keep this civil and not resort to name-calling, yeah?

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The way I see it, we each have primarily responsibility for our weapons, be they in a game zone, safe zone, car, wardrobe, whatever.

If the kid had taken it, loaded it, primed it then pulled the trigger, then it'd be different. But all reasonable steps to make the weapon safe weren't taken I'm afraid, so primary fault rests with you.

 

That being said, if the kid is old enough to Airsoft, they are old enough to get a clip round the earhole with a stern telling off for taking other people's stuff + being a moron with it.

 

But one of the biggest things I see here is that you've coughed up publicly to it and that you're responsible enough to have learned from it. That's worth something to me.

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He also let someone pick his gun up pull the bolt and aim it.

 

He didn't. Read the post again.

 

some kid took my vsr and pointed it at someone, pulled the bolt and attempted to fire it (thinking he would only be dry-firing) but luckily he didn't take off the safety before hand. At this point I took the gun from him, took it outside and cleared it completely.

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He didn't. Read the post again.

 

 

If someone takes your gun do you not talk to them? Maybe a watch there's a mag in it?

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Jambo88, I mentioned twice that I was managing my kit preparing for a reload. In other words, I didn't see him pick up the gun, I turned around to reload the magazines that were with the gun as he was pulling the trigger, it was at that point that I took it off him.

Why don't you tell me of your stellar record in airsoft? Y'know, how you have NEVER done anything wrong? I'd be quite interested to hear it, perhaps you could be my role model? :)

 

 

 

Just for clarification, normally I would remove the magazine, fire off a burst of auto, put the safety on and finally put a solid plastic orange muzzle cover on the gun (just in case) - I am feeling the need to prove I'm not a complete fool now! But yeah, second time using the VSR, seemed safe enough to be left for five minutes, alas, I was wrong.

 

Once again thank you everyone for your contribution! Some very good points made for both perspectives

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You should have cleared it but I blame the dickhead who thinks he can just pickup someone's gun and point it at someone in the safe zone.

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First off why did a random mid grab your vsr. Did he ask you and if he did did you tell him that the mag was in? Second I personally think you would be given the blame for this as it's your weapon and therefore your responsibility to make sure it is completely safe before entering the safe zone. Finally if this really was a kid like you said his younger age might let him off easier if not completely.

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While you were undoubtedly in the wrong for leaving a magazine in the gun, the responsibility for anyone being hurt would always be with the person who pulled the trigger. Standard rules of firearms apply, always assume a gun is loaded until you have absolutely proved otherwise. Sadly a lot of airsoft players don't heed any kind of caution when handling their toys.

 

Please don't take this as a dig, clearly you won't make the mistake again!

This scenario is a good example of why some rules which seem like they might not apply to everyone really do apply to everyone. If the site rules state that you must clear your gun and remove magazines, it doesn't matter how safe you are... there's always the lowest common denominator that can f*ck everyone's day up :)

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