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Hertfordshire - Potential new site - Market Research


RussAFO
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Oooo...one more thing; hire guns. Some sites I've been to have pretty terrible hire guns, and its left a few friends unimpressed when I've tried to get them into the game. If it was my site, I'd try and avoid two-toned, creaky, cheap guns, and also offer two magazines each. A lot of sites seem to only give one magazine, and have even tried to charge an extra £5 for renting a spare. Hire guns should be the sort of guns that someone might actually buy as a decent entry-level gun (e.g. G&G CM16s). Just something I thought of recently!

 

Also, feel free to give me a shout if you need people to help build anything. I'd be very interested in helping a site so close to my home get developed.

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Oooo...one more thing; hire guns. Some sites I've been to have pretty terrible hire guns, and its left a few friends unimpressed when I've tried to get them into the game. If it was my site, I'd try and avoid two-toned, creaky, cheap guns, and also offer two magazines each. A lot of sites seem to only give one magazine, and have even tried to charge an extra £5 for renting a spare. Hire guns should be the sort of guns that someone might actually buy as a decent entry-level gun (e.g. G&G CM16s). Just something I thought of recently!

 

Also, feel free to give me a shout if you need people to help build anything. I'd be very interested in helping a site so close to my home get developed.

 

Sites wouldn't need two-tone, and they would get the guns at wholesale - particularly if an established store was sponsoring.

 

One magazine is a lot harder to lose than two.

 

@OP, if you're working closely with a retailer, i'd suggest looking at purchase schemes in which allowing the purchase of a gun pre-ukara that the site/store holds between games. Or even offering 5% off in store if you hired within the last 2 months (by way of dated vouchers for a single transaction).

 

Hire players are the future of the business - there should be more attention (particularly commercially) given to them, as Greg is saying.

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RIFT and Gunman Tuddenham did have pretty new rental guns last time I looked. Who is charging for second mags ?

 

Also, FYI I see that Gunman have announced regular dates for their Kings Langley site in Herts which is a massive site area.

 

 

Oooo...one more thing; hire guns.

 

Also, feel free to give me a shout if you need people to help build anything. I'd be very interested in helping a site so close to my home get developed.

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Sites wouldn't need two-tone, and they would get the guns at wholesale - particularly if an established store was sponsoring.

 

One magazine is a lot harder to lose than two.

 

@OP, if you're working closely with a retailer, i'd suggest looking at purchase schemes in which allowing the purchase of a gun pre-ukara that the site/store holds between games. Or even offering 5% off in store if you hired within the last 2 months (by way of dated vouchers for a single transaction).

 

Hire players are the future of the business - there should be more attention (particularly commercially) given to them, as Greg is saying.

 

I've only seen two-tone hire guns once, and that was at Tuddenham last month, where I believe my friend was given a Umarex UMP .45 in neon blue. It was a perfectly functional gun as far as low-end rentals are concerned, and it seemed to be quite new, but it looked and felt like a kids toy, and I was quite surprised they hadn't gone for something that made rentals stand out a little less. Even the same gun in black would have been a huge improvement. I know looks aren't everything, and that a lot of us would be prepared to use two-tone weapons if RIFs were banned, but for new guys, I think the look and feel of the guns is important.

 

Good point about the magazines, although I think I still find that one isn't enough for a whole game. At the very least there should be the option to ask for another mag, or perhaps pay a £5 deposit. You get the money back when they get the magazine back. I also support the idea of the pre-purchase scheme; I didn't use one getting into the game, but it makes a lot of sense to me.

 

 

RIFT and Gunman Tuddenham did have pretty new rental guns last time I looked. Who is charging for second mags ?

 

Also, FYI I see that Gunman have announced regular dates for their Kings Langley site in Herts which is a massive site area.

 

RIFT hire guns are essentially what I'm basing my comments on. I think their CM16s are perfect for rentals, and they give two mags, a bit of training, and I think they've got magazine pouches that come with the package as well now, so rentals aren't running around with no-where to store the second one (if I remember correctly, the pockets on the overalls don't fasten up). It was quite a while ago, but I believe it was Tuddenham that charged me for the second mag, around the summer of 2014. I might be remembering wrong. I know they've changed the site a lot since then, and if it was them, they don't do it now.

 

I'm keeping a close eye on the Kings Langley site. Looks like a good location, and the Gunman guys seem to know what they're doing.

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Hi Greg.

 

We are part of the same group as Gunman Airsoft and we specialise only in themed milsims so don't have anything to do with the regular skirmishes.

 

Tuddenham was run by a different managment team at that time. As you say, there have been changes. The current Gunman manager is Doug and we've never come across them charging for second mags.

 

Kings Langley is not a new site. It's been used for a couple of years at least and we have used it twice for our Okto Eight theme milsims.

 

The recent development is only that there was a delay in establishing the 2016 skirmish dates for Kings Langley and that has now been firmed up, hence our earlier post here.

 

http://www.airsoft-forums.co.uk/index.php/topic/29792-gunman-kings-langley-herts-site-open-again-for-2016/?hl=langley

 

 

 

 

It was quite a while ago, but I believe it was Tuddenham that charged me for the second mag, around the summer of 2014. I might be remembering wrong. I know they've changed the site a lot since then, and if it was them, they don't do it now.

 

I'm keeping a close eye on the Kings Langley site. Looks like a good location, and the Gunman guys seem to know what they're doing.

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RIFT and Gunman Tuddenham did have pretty new rental guns last time I looked. Who is charging for second mags ?

 

Also, FYI I see that Gunman have announced regular dates for their Kings Langley site in Herts which is a massive site area.

 

Aww, shame I can't reach it, can't get there before 10:40 with public transport.

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Good point about the magazines, although I think I still find that one isn't enough for a whole game. At the very least there should be the option to ask for another mag, or perhaps pay a £5 deposit. You get the money back when they get the magazine back.

 

When I was hiring guns from UCAP, I was given one hi-cap magazine and a bottle of 3k 0.20g BB. When I emptied the mag, I just poured some more BB into it. Option to buy extra bottle from the site but I never used a whole one up. Also taught me about bottle rattle and to get a bag to put some BBs into instead of carrying the half full bottle.

 

As others have said, it is something else to lose. A refundable deposit for extra mag is fairer though.

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Hi all, I'll try not to hijack the thread as this is about your business, not mine. Just thought I'd reinforce the discussion from a site manager's perspective.

 

Good quality rental guns are a big thing, we have traditionally used a range of guns on our sites. We sold on our last G&G CM16s after 2 years, after cleaning the switch contacts on all of them as they had only just started to stick with 2 years of carbon deposits. They are fantastic guns and I regret not replacing them like for like.

 

We made the decision to buy some two-tone guns for use at our open days (Umarex UMP-45 and G36C) with the view being that we could sell them on easier after a year at places like the War and Peace show to anyone over 18. Most people only rent between once and 3 times until they are able to buy their own RIF so the colour hasn't been a problem for most people.

 

I wouldn't recommend them as rentals (even in black) as they just don't stand up to the same sort of abuse as the g&gs did. Also, the UMP mags are not great unless you use midcaps.

 

We are looking to go back to G&Gs and sell off the Umarex ones (do you a deal on them if you want lol). I can't recommend the CM16s more highly as rentals.

 

Most of our games have an ammo limit of 600 rounds carried in the field, so we used to put out two mags with the CM16s, one with AKs and one with UMP and G36 (450 rounds). On non limit skirmish games we will usually loan an extra mag if requested as long as we have spares at no extra charge. I'd be curious how many of our customers who have lost mags in the field realise what a replacement costs though. We also loan out overalls and chest rigs - helps keep your first time customers clothes a bit cleaner.

 

Another important thing is the rental face masks. We've stopped using the traditional rental masks, you know the ones with a rubber surrounded mesh goggle and the clip on plastic lower face protector. They are uncomfortable and tend to fall apart when your customers cram them into the box or bag at the end of the day. We now have some padded fencing type masks which are a lot more comfortable and hard wearing, but they did cost £30 each!

 

One of sites we have a caterer comes on site, the rest we offer pot noodles, chocolate, water, coke and energy drinks etc. That's the easiest way to cater without getting involved in all the legislation surrounding cooking and food sales. Just make sure you keep your prices reasonable, nothing worse than being charged £1 for a coke or a 500ml bottle of water... We also offer free tea and coffee our non catered sites and events. Doesn't cost much to provide but it can make a big impression on a cold, wet day.

 

Marshals are hugely important as several people have said. They need to be a certain type of person to do it and they need to have a great understanding of how you want your games run. More than anyone else, they are the people who can make the difference between a great site and community and one where people leave grumpy or angry on a regular basis.

 

Don't forget to be realistic as well, it's all very well offering haute cuisine, plumbed toilets, showers, loads of chronos and marshals, building features etc, but if you plan on running as a business you'll either have to charge silly money for a game or introduce better facilities gradually. Listen to your players' feedback but understand that you will not be able to satisfy everything, at least not straightaway unless this is a hobby and you have a large disposable income to sink into it.

 

I hope the above has been helpful and wish you every success with your venture.

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Make sure the road to the car park doesn't wreck exhausts. A big shed with tables inside and benches outside will do for a safezone. A porta-loo would be good, I don't mind having a piss in a bush but I don't want to roll in human shit when I'm playing. A decent map of the area would be good. Bases don't need to be brilliant just keep them to a decent size and don't let them fall to bits. You could run a game where you have pioneers who build a base during a day/weekend game so they will get attacked as they are building a base or digging a trench system you could let them play for £2 or something just to attract players to doing that role.

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What some sites do is whoever pitches in with building etc gets a free game

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi guys..just a quick update. The proposal has gone to the landowner and I will be seeing him next week to hopefully iron out any issues. If we are good to go then work will begin at the site immediately, I will be looking for volunteers to help at the site. You will be richly rewarded in games and maybe beer as there is a pub just a round the corner. I am also in contact with another landowner locally if all falls through on this one.

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Wouldnt be too hard for me and my lot to get too...

 

We may even be able to pitch in with helping out develop n build the site too.

 

Love trying new places and enjoy woodland more than cqb at the mo so will defo come and visit!!

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Hi guys..just a quick update. The proposal has gone to the landowner and I will be seeing him next week to hopefully iron out any issues. If we are good to go then work will begin at the site immediately, I will be looking for volunteers to help at the site. You will be richly rewarded in games and maybe beer as there is a pub just a round the corner. I am also in contact with another landowner locally if all falls through on this one.

Keep us posted!

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  • 1 month later...
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So any update on whether this is being taken forward?

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