Jump to content
Mos

RiF loopholes

Recommended Posts

So, I am 14, and, I want to PLAY with a RiF, I have a 25 year old brother who plays with me. The aim of this topic is to find a way so I can play with a RiF. Now. Here are someways I think I can loophole. I played air soft today, and the Marshall who owned it all didn't check to see if the people had a ukara license, also, we played with a RiF gun we got lended by the owner.

 

Can my brother buy a two tone and spray paint it black.

 

Can someone, either my brother or parent buy a RiF from some guy who is just selling his gun, through eBay or who is just selling from their homes or selling at my air soft site.

 

Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just get your brother to get his Ukara membership then he can buy a RIF.

If you buy one in a private sale then the seller is breaking the law selling to someone without a defense.

Repainting a two tone without a defense is also dodgy as it can be classed as manufacturing a RIF.

Just follow the rules same as everyone else has and stop looking to skirt round it. Ukara is a benefit to airsofters because if it didnt work there was probably going to be a ban on rifs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've realised, My parent/brother can buy a two tone, and then you can out came tape around the coloured bits. Then take it off after the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just get your brother to get his Ukara membership then he can buy a RIF.

If you buy one in a private sale then the seller is breaking the law selling to someone without a defense.

Repainting a two tone without a defense is also dodgy as it can be classed as manufacturing a RIF.

Just follow the rules same as everyone else has and stop looking to skirt round it. Ukara is a benefit to airsofters because if it didnt work there was probably going to be a ban on rifs.

Ok. Yeah I do understand, it's not worth getting asked "do you have a reason for your RiF" and at that point you'd get screwed... Might as well play those three games! But, I think I know a way, can I buy a two tone. And put came tape around it, then when people ask, I take it off. This seems fine..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its not illegal to own a rif without a Ukara. Its just illegal to sell one to someone without a ukara. Your brother can buy a two tone and gift it to you. Then its fine to put camo tape around it.

The site owner wouldnt need to check for ukara as its for sales not ownership.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its not illegal to own a rif without a Ukara. Its just illegal to sell one to someone without a ukara. Your brother can buy a two tone and gift it to you. Then its fine to put camo tape around it.

The site owner wouldnt need to check for ukara as its for sales not ownership.

Thank you. So are you saying if I use camo tape, my brother has to provide UKARA? Or maybe I'm wrong, probably am, aha. Just to clarify, my brother buying a two tone, then putting camo tape around it is completely legal, and if someone asks, just take the tape off?

 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just need to be 18!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a long read (TL:DR) but i am trying to cover as many bases here as possible rather than give you a one liner yes or no.

 

Lets get one thing straight here UKARA is only a database retailers use to verify if you have a legal defence to buy an Airsoft weapon in order for them to comply with the VCRA 2005, it is not in anyway like a firearms licence, you do not need one to own, transport or use an Airsoft weapon.

 

Any persons can own an Airsoft weapon regardless of age however there are certain legal restrictions in their sale between retailers or persons as well as how the can be adapted.

 

Your brother (who is over 18) may purchase any Airsoft gun WITHOUT UKARA so long as the gun is painted in a bright colour which covers more that 51% of the gun.

 

IF he has a UKARA number (NOT LICENCE) then he may purchase any Airsoft gun in any colour he wishes.

 

Your brother can then turn and gift you this gun (regardless of colour) to you to keep, own, transport and use at an approved Airsoft site so long as that Airsoft gun meets that sites rules (ie an AEG no more than 350FPS etc).

 

If it is two toned and you cover it with camo tape for a days play which you then remove after the day has ended, as the camo tape is deemed a temporary modification you have NOT committed any offences.

 

Offences are only committed IF:

Your brother purchases the gun (regardless of colour) and gives it to you demanding an exchange of payment (money, goods, etc) then HE (not you) commits the offence of a sale of an Airsoft weapon to a) a person under the age of 18 and b ) if it is of a realistic colour he has not complied with the S.36 Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 by selling an under 18 an Airsoft weapon and ensuring that you have a legal defence to buy the gun from him if it is of a realistic colour.

 

or

 

If you or your brother purchases a two toned Airsoft weapon and then spray paints it a realistic colour the you could be committing the offence of manufacturing or converting an Airsoft weapon to a real fire arm or intend it to look real even if it does not fire lethal projectiles.

 

or

 

Lastly (and this should be a given) you take said Airsoft weapon regardless of colour into any public place (ie somewhere the public have easy access) without a reasonable excuse (such as going directly to or from an Airsoft event) the you commit an offence under Section 19 Firearms Act 1968, if you cause another member of public fear of violence then you will contravene Section 16a Firearms Act 1968. Whilst it may appear that even transporting the gun is illegal so long as you dont draw attention to yourself and are going to or from an Airsoft event then you will be fine.

 

I hope my above explanation answers most of you "What if" questions.

 

I used Google, found and read the following reference material regarding Firearm Offences, mostly from the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) who are the ones who do the "pressing charges" and mainly from the Firearms Act 1968, if you are arrested for any of these offences chances are your case will be referred to the Crown Prosecution Service who will then decide your fate, whether it is to no Further Action (NFA), caution, charge and bail, charge and remand to court, bail with or without conditions pending further enquiries.

 

Fun Fact: no one in England or Wales has the right to decide if they want to press charges or not on any offence, its an American (ie US) thing, only the CPS has the right to press charges or not hence why are all cases are Regina (the queen) Vs "insert your surname here" more commonly written as R vs Shizbazki (if i had been naughty).

 

Reference material with annotations :) bare in mind the below offences are for England and Wales only as Scotland has slightly different laws which i am NOT familiar with.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/firearms

This page more or less tells you what a firearm is deemed as and the differences between a real firearm, a RIF and an IF as well as the part about converting guns (even if to look real and nothing else)

 

The following parts below regard the points to prove for each offence mentioned above as well as the maximum sentence or fine and whether it is a summary only or indictable offence, for most RIF and IFs its is summary only meaning that the maximum prison sentence is only 6 months

 

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/section_19_firearms_act/

Not having a reasonable excuse to have an Airsoft gun in public, ie just going out with it for s**ts and giggles. Summary only, max sentence 6 months

 

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/section_16a_firearms_act/

Regards the same as above but this is for intent to cause fear so don't show your Airsoft gun to your mate who you meet down the street on the way back from an air soft game or you take it out for said sh**s and giggles, if someone sees it and thinks its a real gun, fears for their life and calls the police, the offence is complete. Indictable only, max sentence 10 years

 

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/section_36_violent_crime_reduction_act/

This regards our lovely UKARA, if your brother gets a gun for you and gives it to you but demands payment he commits this offence, it has yet to be tested at court (ie no one has ever been done for it) yet nonetheless it is Summary only with a max sentence of 6 months.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its not illegal to own a rif without a Ukara. Its just illegal to sell one to someone without a ukara. Your brother can buy a two tone and gift it to you. Then its fine to put camo tape around it.

The site owner wouldnt need to check for ukara as its for sales not ownership.

Correction: It's illegal to sell one to someone without a valid defence - UKARA is not the be all and end all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a RIF in my house (my dad's old one) and I was perfectly fine using it when I started out. As said before, you can own one (there are RIFs knocking about from before the VCRA act, such as the first one I used). You just won't be able to buy one without a valid defence - Well, not legally anyway... As far as two tones go, they're bloody pointless. Might as well just get a valid defence (such as UKARA...) and then get a RIF. Otherwise you're gonna be stuck with a two tone - even if you paint it, the colours may eventually show when your paint gets worn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We really need a "read first" thread for this recurring question :P

 

As above. A few points that get given on every other thread in this section:

 

1 - UKARA us NOT a licence, it has nothing to do with government, police or customs

 

2 - there is no law or legislation controlling the ownership of an IF/RIF. It is impossible to be charged with an offence for owning or using an IF/RIF unless authorities could prove you were going to use it for violent crime.

 

3 - there is no law or legislation controlling the purchasing of an IF/RIF

 

4 - by law, all SELLERS must ensure that the purchasor of an IF if at least 18 years old. If a minor purchases an IF, only the seller has committed a criminal offence

 

5 - by law, all sellers must ensure that the purchasir of an RIF holds a legitimate DEFENCE, as a way of proving they will use the RIF for sport, recreation, or some other use that doesn't involve violent crime. For us airsofters, that is almost always UKARA. Again, if someone does sell a gun to someone without a defence, the seller has committed an offence and the buyer had not

 

6 - giving someone an IF or an RIF for free does not legally require a defence

 

7 - altering an IF to look realistic is covered explicitly in the VCRA, and it is illegal, hovever a legitimate defence (like UKARA) protects the person who did it, putting sniper tape on a rifle is not a permanent change, so that doesn't count, but adhesive tape probably would.

 

8 - since there are no existing court cases in this legislation, the few grey areas haven't been tested yet. This means that the only person who can tell you if you have/will break the law is a man I'm a curly wig at a courthouse (and maybe 12 of your peers)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correction: It's illegal to sell one to someone without a valid defence - UKARA is not the be all and end all.

Yeah I know that just wanted to simplify it for the op. The whole valid defence, what is and what isnt is another story. A lot of shops are only accepting

ukara or site membership (which means you should be on ukara database anyway) as a valid defence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah thank you everyone, for the response, really helped me out. And I have some knowledge of the law now. Thanks, looks like we will buy a two tone and camo tape it. But regarding that if my brother buys the two tone, he can only gift it to me, I can't buy it off him. I see that's illegal if I buy it off him. Though, I think I have found a way round it, if I give my brother the money before he buys it, then he buys and then gifts to me. Surely, that's a way round it? As I said, thanks for the help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a RIF in my house (my dad's old one) and I was perfectly fine using it when I started out. As said before, you can own one (there are RIFs knocking about from before the VCRA act, such as the first one I used). You just won't be able to buy one without a valid defence - Well, not legally anyway... As far as two tones go, they're bloody pointless. Might as well just get a valid defence (such as UKARA...) and then get a RIF. Otherwise you're gonna be stuck with a two tone - even if you paint it, the colours may eventually show when your paint gets worn.

2 tones are not pointless if

 

A- your under 18

B- to young to be ukara registered

C- your parents dont play airsoft

 

We're not all lucky enough to have a family member who played for the laws changed so already have RIF's

 

We all start somewhere mate & I didn't want to pay for rental all the so like the OP, I wrapped camo tape on at game days & removed it at the end of the day

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He has other options than getting a two tone. His brother can get UKARA registered or just find someone who will sell a RIF with site membership as a defence - he will then be that family member that plays airsoft and can access RIFS. Never had any problems with a RIF when I was under 18. Not trying to just pick holes in what you're saying by the way, just trying to present the alternatives that the OP has in terms of having a RIF over a two tone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 - there is no law or legislation controlling the ownership of an IF/RIF. It is impossible to be charged with an offence for owning or using an IF/RIF unless authorities could prove you were going to use it for violent crime.

 

I think we should be vary careful with some of the advice being given here...

 

OP - I'm sure you're a good kid and your brother will help keep you out of trouble and all. But you're looking for loopholes right from the off, and that sets alarm bells off in my head. So, however you might end up owning a RIF, please use it sensibly too - as well as legally.

A RIF + violent crime is not the only way to have a bad day, as these lads found out: http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/firearms-alert-triggered-in-stoke-on-trent-by-teenagers-bb-guns-11363996407884

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree wholly. A family friend was carjacked by a nutter with an RIF.

 

Fun fact - once the bastard was nicked, the forensic scientists tested his RIF and decided it was lethal, so he was charged with armed robbery.

 

My advice is aimed squarely at airsofters, who want to use airsoft replicas legally and safely. I don't consider any of my points loopholes, but rather the pertinent points of the vcra and firearms act which people might miss, and this forum section gets the same few questions asked over and over

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We really need a "read first" thread for this recurring question :P

 

As above. A few points that get given on every other thread in this section:

 

1 - UKARA us NOT a licence, it has nothing to do with government, police or customs

 

2 - there is no law or legislation controlling the ownership of an IF/RIF. It is impossible to be charged with an offence for owning or using an IF/RIF unless authorities could prove you were going to use it for violent crime.

 

3 - there is no law or legislation controlling the purchasing of an IF/RIF

 

4 - by law, all SELLERS must ensure that the purchasor of an IF if at least 18 years old. If a minor purchases an IF, only the seller has committed a criminal offence

 

5 - by law, all sellers must ensure that the purchasir of an RIF holds a legitimate DEFENCE, as a way of proving they will use the RIF for sport, recreation, or some other use that doesn't involve violent crime. For us airsofters, that is almost always UKARA. Again, if someone does sell a gun to someone without a defence, the seller has committed an offence and the buyer had not

 

6 - giving someone an IF or an RIF for free does not legally require a defence

 

7 - altering an IF to look realistic is covered explicitly in the VCRA, and it is illegal, hovever a legitimate defence (like UKARA) protects the person who did it, putting sniper tape on a rifle is not a permanent change, so that doesn't count, but adhesive tape probably would.

 

8 - since there are no existing court cases in this legislation, the few grey areas haven't been tested yet. This means that the only person who can tell you if you have/will break the law is a man I'm a curly wig at a courthouse (and maybe 12 of your peers)

 

Its an offence for a minor to purchase

 

(1)After section 24 of the 1968 Act insert—

24ASupplying imitation firearms to minors

(1)It is an offence for a person under the age of eighteen to purchase an imitation firearm.

(2)It is an offence to sell an imitation firearm to a person under the age of eighteen.

(3)In proceedings for an offence under subsection (2) it is a defence to show that the person charged with the offence—

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/40

Section 40: Supplying imitation firearms to minors
  1. This section introduces two new offences. It makes it an offence for anyone aged under 18 to purchase an imitation firearm and for anyone to sell an imitation firearm to someone aged under 18.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-violent-crime-reduction-act-2006-commencement-no-3-order-2007-firearms-measures

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I stand corrected :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks again. And I read someone said that not everyone is lucky to have a ukara registered family member..

And that's where I'm at, I'm not lucky enough, so I think two tone is the route I'll go down, then just tape it up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×