Quick Questions & Simple Answers.

[Ian_Gere]

I personally would just get rid of the hop rubber, hop nub and the barrel. Bot sure what the hop up is made of sniper rifles are something I am not overly familiar with, but if its plastic or has plastic parts I would dump that as well.

Never clean your gun with anything containing acetone its like acid for plastics.

At least its only a madbull barrel they are crap anyway.

Yeah, a new rubber may well be necessary and considering the cost it may well be in your best interests to get one and sack the potential for future aggravation that simply cleaning may store up, in as much as there will always be a question mark hanging over it and therefore if/when you have any problems in future, that's one more thing that it could be. I disagree regarding the nub, barrel and hop chamber itself however - there is nothing about a nub which having been dirty makes questionable and barrels are meant to be cleaned - the only issue with any barrel is that you should clean it in such a way which minimises potential scratches to the surface / this is doubly important for Madbull barrels in as much as their surface is added after the initial manufacture, so it is more at risk than a stainless steel surface, as an example. They are not crap though. For sure they're not PDI or Prometheus, but the process of filling in the microscopic surface inconsistencies which result from the manufacture of any metal tubes produces a much better end result than the metal alone and this is reflected in the price from those manufacturers who approach the problem by polishing vs those who just don't bother and are cheaper than Madbull. Regarding the hop chamber, again having been dirty is no reason to throw it away - you'll be able to see if the powder is a result of a chemical reaction between the rain when it was wet and the plastic, however i expect that it is simply a residue left behind by evaporation, so any problem it may cause by jamming parts will be removed by cleaning.

 

Yeah I always strip the hop unit before cleaning barrels, it's a shoddy clone of a tm vsr so cba to upgrade it. Left it out in Bristol so I have no idea where the acid rain came from (sarcasm). But in general are Orga barrels better than a Prometheus?

I clean my barrels after every use, so either the next day or sometimes the day before next use, so I couldn't be arsed to strip everything in front of the nozzle everytime i did so, nor do i think there is any need to do so - once in a blue moon for sure but usually i'll have the gun in bits for some other reason so a thorough clean will end up as part of that, or as in this case, when I know that a lot of some form of dirt has got inside. Something to bear in mind about any guns, but cheaper ones more so, is that stripping them often does unintended damage to screw heads and threads and small parts put together under spring pressure, so if there's no need for it, better not to bother. If you find yourself with the disease with which many of us become infected, the unstoppable desire to tinker, get more project guns!

 

I'm not convinced by the Orga philosophy, although for sure i haven't had one so my opinion is speculative, nonetheless I do have a TK Twist barrel and was not impressed. I believe that those Orga test results which we can trust, as opposed to those which have been proved to be fake/heavily biased, represent circumstances which are entirely unrealistic to our needs - yes the whole air cushion idea may work very well when the gun is clamped to a bench in the still air of a workshop/lab, but in the field the barrel is subject to involuntary movement as well as the fact that even on a bipod using a spirit level to make sure that the gun is bang on horizontal when fired is somewhat unrealistic, plus any kind of headwind will interfere with the cone of air which exits the muzzle ahead of the BB...

[geoffreym]

Who are people's preferred people to get custom patches (hopefully for use on a beret) done up for cheap?

[Zak Da Mack]

I've heard lots of praise about Stitch Me Up. Search them up on facebook and send them a message

[geoffreym]

I've heard lots of praise about Stitch Me Up. Search them up on facebook and send them a message

Thanks, sent a message.

[jcheeseright]

second thumbs up for stitch me up, rapid service and reasonable prices.

[Ian_Gere]

Who are people's preferred people to get custom patches (hopefully for use on a beret) done up for cheap?

Yeah, Nicky Stitch Me Up

[ricefarmer]

Hanks for the reply Ian, this goes back to my main question; is it really worth buying an expensive part, to an extent,? I mean if you look on airlab there are £200 gearbox cases. We're shooting plastic balls from about 50-100m. Sure stock parts may not be the best but my Madbull barrel works, so I'm really wondering if buying a new barrel will increase my actual range or psychological range. Its on a polarstar so it's pretty much the most important part asides from the hop.

[Ian_Gere]

Hanks for the reply Ian, this goes back to my main question; is it really worth buying an expensive part, to an extent,? I mean if you look on airlab there are £200 gearbox cases. We're shooting plastic balls from about 50-100m. Sure stock parts may not be the best but my Madbull barrel works, so I'm really wondering if buying a new barrel will increase my actual range or psychological range. Its on a polarstar so it's pretty much the most important part asides from the hop.

Well, it's true that past a certain point the returns you get from spending more money become much less noticeable. However exactly where that point is for any given part is not necessarily all that clear, because both stock parts and upgrade parts are manufactured to certain engineering tolerances, so while it may be the case that the more expensive the upgrade parts the tighter the tolerances, it does not necessarily follow that the individual part you buy, with its particular exact dimensions, actually works well with whatever stock/upgrade parts, with their exact dimensions, which you already have. Nonetheless, on average, particular parts by particular companies get a reputation and while people don't tend to write much about parts which just do their job as expected, if something costs a lot and doesn't provide any noticeable benefit, or vice versa, performs very well despite costing relatively little, people do tend to say so either in reviews or just in discussions like this. So if you read plenty of such discussions, not just search for reviews on parts you are considering, you'll get a feel for the consensus on what is worth spending a lot on and what jobs can be done perfectly well by stock parts/cheaper upgrades.

 

Personally I would not spend £200 on a gearbox shell, but a £95 V2 shell is likely to not suffer from the cracks which cheap monkey metal ones develop radiating from the corners of the cavity which the cylinder fits into - it may very well also run cooler and more quietly, because the holes which accept the bushings/bearings are likely to be drilled on a jig with tighter tolerances (which naturally takes a worker with greater skill longer to set up) than a cheap one onto which the blank shell moulding can be slapped and drilled in moments without the worker having to pay all that much attention. Of course not all gearbox versions suffer from this cracking problem and, amongst those that do, obviously it is exacerbated by the shell being put under greater strain by strong springs and/or higher cycle speeds. Here in the UK we tend to use M100 springs but cheap Chinese Zamak alloy shells are often designed to carry M120-30 springs...

 

As far as barrels go, I have found that Systema are no better than Guarder, neither of which are as good as Madbull, both for range and accuracy. However PDI barrels which are very expensive compared to almost any other brand are fully worth the money - comparing a PDI 595x6.01mm to a Madbull Ultimate 590x6.01mm in my SVD produced about 10m extra maximum range, but a degree of accuracy at extreme range that literally increased the effective range by at least 15m, more in completely still air.

[ricefarmer]

Thanks for the reply, I have another hop related question, I got a flat hop namazu, prommy purple and a prowin, from amped airsoft a advice. After setting it up I'm quite disappointed, the arm has a bit of side to side play and it wobbles in the receiver when there's no mag cause there's no spring. Should I diy it or get a lonex? Tbh I thought I'd avoided all this part nonsense when I got a Jack.

[Ian_Gere]

Thanks for the reply, I have another hop related question, I got a flat hop namazu, prommy purple and a prowin, from amped airsoft a advice. After setting it up I'm quite disappointed, the arm has a bit of side to side play and it wobbles in the receiver when there's no mag cause there's no spring. Should I diy it or get a lonex? Tbh I thought I'd avoided all this part nonsense when I got a Jack.

Flat hop/R-hop/XYZ-hop = not my area of expertise, mate. But P* is just propellant - I don't understand why you'd imagine that you didn't need to concern yourself with hop up - no matter what gun it is, the only way to get the kind of ranges we're used to as medium-long to extreme is backspin.

 

One thing I will say about funky hop designs is that there is no need for any of 'em if you're shooting <0.3g BB's @approx 1Joule, so basically if you're running an assault rifle with full-auto capability, dial back the complicated, try a £2 Element H-nub (for accuracy) with your prommy purple rubber (for min FPS reduction due to mechanical braking during application of backspin, because it's very sticky) and wrap the muzzle end of the rubber with PTFE tape to improve the seal between inner barrel and rubber (to improve power consistency) and ask someone else how to go about preventing that arm wobble, because yeah, that sort of thing not only affects straightforward accuracy but also hop consistency, which is a huge part of snap-shooting accuracy.

 

You're saying that your Prowin hop chamber has no way to attach it to something solid (but I dunno what gun you're talking about - a Prowin AK hop chamber has the standard 2 points which bolt to the barrel base assembly and an extra one which bolts to the forward end of the gearbox shell)? If that is the case then yeah, you need to make it immobile. If you cannot do that with a DIY solution, then yeah replace it.

[proffrink]

Thanks for the reply, I have another hop related question, I got a flat hop namazu, prommy purple and a prowin, from amped airsoft a advice. After setting it up I'm quite disappointed, the arm has a bit of side to side play and it wobbles in the receiver when there's no mag cause there's no spring. Should I diy it or get a lonex? Tbh I thought I'd avoided all this part nonsense when I got a Jack.

Ian is right. R-Hops are basically unnecessary unless you want a seriously long-lasting solution and are willing to put in the time and have the patience to do it. Most usual hop up rubbers will do fine.

 

That said, this sounds like a problem with the hop unit rather than the choice of bucking or nub. Do you have a picture?

[Ian_Gere]

Something to consider when it comes to upgrading guns is that if you just replace all the internals with upgrades which have a better reputation than your stock parts, you're not really likely to get the best results possible for your money. The way forward is to decide on a strategy and choose parts which will work well together towards the intended purpose.

 

For instance, Siegetek gears are very strong and therefore better than say, stock G&G, but let's say you also have a Madbull Black Python 6.03x363mm, a Maple Leaf 50° hop rubber, and an SHS Aluminium Air Seal Nozzle w/ O-Ring - so long as the piston head O-ring is sufficiently greased for 100% compression, from a stock G&G M100 spring the muzzle velocity with 0.2g BB's will be about but not less than 360FPS, ie at least 10 too many for many UK sites; so let's say you fit a Magic Box M95 spring to get 345FPS (which gives room for both temperature/humidity and chrono variance); at this stage, what is the point of the £110 Siegetek gears?

 

Well, one use for them would be to fit a Prometheus MS120 spring and lock the gun off to semi-auto only for a DMR firing at approx 425FPS, choose Revolution Plus 10.44/1 ratio Siegetek's and fit a G&P M180S Satan motor, for a very rapid trigger response (which is essential for hitting targets who pop up for a look-see but will move into better cover if the 1st shot misses).

 

For another e.g., the more i think about what I wrote above, the more i wonder whether it is actually good advice; a P* engine is best for high cycle rate builds, but what is the point of pinpoint accuracy if what you end up with is a stream of 30rnds/s all landing on exactly the same spot? It only takes 1 BB to hit and, while it's true that high cycle rates intimidate the opposition, if intimidation is the strategy, then support gunner is the role (regardless of whatever the actual gun is), so why not take a leaf out of the British Army's book? Their armourers fettled the GPMG to be deliberately less accurate than its capabilities because the enemy are likely to be suppressed much more by rounds/BB's clattering all over their cover rather than a load of hits all within a few inches of each other.

 

The other role where intimidation comes into play is pointman, so when contact is initiated his job is to get as many rounds down as possible ASAP, so imagine firing at running targets: a series of short bursts @30rnds/s arriving like clouds into which the target will run is much better than using a gun accurate enough for groupings on an A5 page @50m trying to lead the target by the exact amount needed to hit , especially when if you do hit you will hit with several BB's anyway.

 

So hey, maybe that wobbly hop arm and unstable hop chamber are blessings in disguise. Anyway, unless you are seeing a noticeable improved range with your flat hop, with your own eyes, compared to, for eg, the biro mod (which is very good for providing consistency of accuracy in elevation, because you don't want a wobbly hop arm with a soft nub leading to 1 in 5, or whatever, BB's falling short even if that means another 1/5 fly high and long), then I would definitely sack it...

[ricefarmer]

Yeah i guess I just have high expectations of everything and have to remember it's just airsoft. I wanted to have a laser gun but now essentially I've got a good balanced assault rifle.

[Ian_Gere]

Yeah i guess I just have high expectations of everything and have to remember it's just airsoft. I wanted to have a laser gun but now essentially I've got a good balanced assault rifle.

Well, if you want a very accurate AEG, then tailor a build for that. A P* engine is probably not the best use of money for upgrades with accuracy in mind though - about the only reason to use one is the trigger response, but you can get instant trigger response like a BASR in an AEG from programmable MOSFET's with Pre-Cocking - BTC Chimera and the cheaper King Kong BW3: even the BTC is cheaper than a P* engine. Yeah, high expectations are one thing, but selecting the right parts for the job is necessary to make your expectations possibilities: there is no point using sniper upgrades in a gun firing at around 1J because 1) you will not have the range for the tiny differences in grouping size to become noticeable: I mean something which may improve your grouping by an inch at 45m may well be the difference between a man sized target hit and miss @90m. And 2) you will not be firing heavy BB's which benefit from non standard hop set ups.

[Sacarathe]

Well, if you want a very accurate AEG, then tailor a build for that. A P* engine is probably not the best use of money for upgrades with accuracy in mind though - about the only reason to use one is the trigger response,

 

Please clarify, you're specifically referring to the Fusion Engines here? The jack offers much more than just trigger response, and that's what ricefarmer has. On that, the shot consistency is potentially more valuable than trigger response.

[Ian_Gere]

 

Please clarify, you're specifically referring to the Fusion Engines here? The jack offers much more than just trigger response, and that's what ricefarmer has. On that, the shot consistency is potentially more valuable than trigger response.

Ah, well that's where my ignorance is demonstrated then. We're talking about the ability to dial in very exact muzzle velocities, I see. Yeah, potentially very useful for accuracy, but still, the Jack's consistency is still very much dependent on the interface between nozzle and rubber and the seal between rubber, barrel, and hop chamber, which makes me wonder if the Jack is the best use of funds, when in fact a double O-Ring Piston Head costs no more than £15 posted, a good quality Main Piston Head O-Ring such as Lees Precision Engineering costs £5.10 for 6, and CT-2 Teflon Suspension Silicone Grease costs £3.99 for 50g (and depending on how bad the stock parts they replace were, they can easily produce +30FPS and, when combined with an Aluminium Nozzle with O-Ring and a well set up hop rubber, reduce inconsistency between shots to less than +/-4FPS (2 either side of a figure) / the Nozzle + PTFE taped Prometheus Purple rubber or Maple Leaf 50° rubber themselves produce around +10FPS). So to get 347FPS you just need an 90m/s Main Spring with a reputation for consistency, such as a Guarder SP90, which should be pre-tensioned with washers over the Spring Guide to dial in the exact figure you want.

 

Back to our earlier point however - is it worth pursuing such a degree of accuracy from consistency in an assault rifle? Only if the player sees their role as combining marksmanship with the ability to go full-auto... so someone like me whose health makes it very difficult to run up front where volume of reasonably accurate fire is more use than the ability to snap shoot a head shot at 55m, but who nevertheless occasionally has to go first to lead recalcitrant team members by example, despite moving so slowly that making such a run is almost certainly futile But even then, you have to draw lines somewhere between upgrades which do something noticeable for the cost, those which make no sense outside a DMR build or sniper rifle, and those which produce such tiny differences that the expense is not worthwhile or are all hype... I would say that a P* Jack falls into the 2nd category.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Ian_Gere
colour

[Sacarathe]

I'm actually fairly ignorant on the FE myself - other than that they use 3x as much air as the JACK does. But that's P*vP* and does not add to the discussion.

 

This is a moment I'd love to find devastator replied to my lengthy PMs on why a HPA sub forum would be useful - to continue to discuss the pro's and cons of less expensive alternatives to allegedly 'overpriced' HPA systems, I'd love to hear more -351 AEG >HPA talk.

[Ian_Gere]

^^Yeah, i'm sure there's something to be learned...

[SniperFire123]

Hello I'm really new to all this, going to get a cheap rifle. Just wondering what pellets it takes. Can anyone help me?

The rifle is a crossfire 676-1.

Does it take 6mm?

Do I get the "heavy" 6mm bbs?

[Zak Da Mack]

Hello I'm really new to all this, going to get a cheap rifle. Just wondering what pellets it takes. Can anyone help me?

The rifle is a crossfire 676-1.

Does it take 6mm?

Do I get the "heavy" 6mm bbs?

 

Hope you're not planning to take that skirmishing?

[Ian_Gere]

Hello I'm really new to all this, going to get a cheap rifle. Just wondering what pellets it takes. Can anyone help me?

The rifle is a crossfire 676-1.

Does it take 6mm?

Do I get the "heavy" 6mm bbs?

Hope you're not planning to take that skirmishing?

What Zak means, mate, is that the 'rifle' you mentioned is not good enough to be competitive on an airsoft field, plus chances are it'd get broken if you tried to use it in a skirmish. The problem with websites like bbguns4less, or any of the sites with "bbguns" in their name such as justbbguns and onlybbguns, is that they are full of misleading information -

its spring powerd gun and its got a powerful shot on it

Compared to a Nerf gun, yeah maybe... but if you were to put the kind of spring a proper airsoft sniper rifle uses into that, the trigger sear would snap first time you tried to fire it.

 

You can get proper airsoft Bolt Action Sniper Rifles for as little as £130, but they are not competitive unless you upgrade the internals, which costs a minimum of about £150 but easily up to £250. Plus airsoft sniping is an art which takes a lot of practice to get good at - if you imagine that, even with the best BASR, you will lie up invisible to your target under camouflage to place your crosshairs on him and pull the trigger then watch him yelp, "Hit!", you could hardly be farther from the truth. The best advice any of us can give new players who are considering starting as a sniper is DON'T! The classified ads of this and every other airsoft forum or FB Group are full of BASR's which noobs have given up on.

 

Much better to get an assault rifle and enjoy the game for a while, learn how to shoot BB's, I mean how the various weights of them behave in the air and what differences in performance various modifications to guns produce. Learn a bit about camouflage at the ranges we engage each other, usually about 50m or less - unless the foliage you are in is very dense, often a ghillie suit is visible that close, and if the foliage is that dense, wearing bog standard DPM camouflage (old skool British Army clothing) and keeping still will be just as effective. Develop a feel for tactics, so that if you do eventually decide to give sniping a go, you'll be able to position yourself in a spot where your ability to outrange assault rifles will actually prove an asset to the side you are on, rather than just get you outflanked and either ignored or picked off by the opposition's snipers/counter-sniper.

 

This is a guide for newcomers on a tight budget.

[Sacarathe]

Are 140mm widebores worth bothering with (if they exist)? I don't mind 10mm of barrel sticking out the end of the gun if I bought the Orga Magnus 6.23 150mm, but obviously 140mm would be more convenient.

 

EDIT: Discovered barrel extensions as low as 1 inch.

[SniperFire123]

Thanks for the replys. No it's not for competing just to get a feel of it and practice some shooting then I will upgrade to a better gun.

 

Which bbs do I buy for the crossfire?

Which ones do you recommend?

[Sacarathe]

Are you over 18, do you have a limited budget? If yes to both, you're burning money if you buy that, and stick with airsoft.

[Ian_Gere]

Thanks for the replys. No it's not for competing just to get a feel of it and practice some shooting then I will upgrade to a better gun.

 

Which bbs do I buy for the crossfire?

Which ones do you recommend?

Honestly mate, it's so shit that it doesn't matter what you shoot through it, it'll be disappointing, and it wont give you any idea what actual airsoft guns are like. To get any kind of shot worth the name you'd best stick with 0.12g BB's and try to make sure that wherever you are shooting is completely sheltered from wind, because otherwise even a good fart will blow your shots all over the place.

 

About the cheapest gun you can get which will give you an idea what airsoft guns are like is a Double Eagle pump action shotgun. If you are under 18 you'll have to get your parents or somebody 18+ to buy it for you, but if not you'll still need to buy a two-tone until such time as you go airsofting and can get a UKARA registration number, due to the Violent Crime Reduction Act (read our info on UK Law). This is the one time where I reluctantly have to recommend a "bbguns" site (onlybbguns.co.uk are probably the least worst of the bunch) because they do a DE M56B tri-shot for £45 here. The good thing is that if you do decide to get into airsoft, the DE will be useful to you as a close quarters battle weapon, or as a back-up to an assault rifle.

 

The best thing I can advise though is that if you think you may be interested in airsoft, go along to your local site for a skirmish day and rent a gun and eye protection. You can find the nearest site to you on here.