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Ian_Gere

The Experiment Thread

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OK, so we often get to a point in a discussion where we want some evidence. Some of us have done a bit of experimentation and this is evidence we can be pretty sure we can trust, because we can ask the posters how they did their experiment, etc. so we can gauge for ourselves how much the inevitable assumptions, ignored variables, incomplete methodology, etc. affected the results.

 

I'm going to kick off with one which I've just completed:

 

Is there really a bubble inside BB's and, if there is, is it bang in the middle where its presence ought not to affect the flight of the BB much, if at all?

 

I've decided that embedding the pics full size is the way forward - we've all got access to broadband these days (or filters built into our phone browsers to prevent us wasting DL Data on massive pics), have we not, so why make people click links or thumbnails? Un-cropped, the veracity of my claim that the pics are exactly as taken can be ascertained from the meta data, should anyone disbelieve me... :wacko:

 

The BB's I had to hand...

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ASG Blaster 0.2g / Madbull Tan 0.4g / ASG Blaster Devil 0.3g / P&J (taiwangun.com own brand) 0.32g / Vanaras Tan 0.4g / BB King 0.2g

 

The Methodology

I just pulled the BB's out at random. Most of them are sawn part way through using my Dremmel and then split the rest of the way with a knife. I did it that way because cutting them with a pair of wire cutters squeezed the plastic into the centre in a way which looked like it would hide any interior cavities, as you can see in the 1st Blaster 0.2g. Who can say just how representative a sample these are, but hey, these are the ones that popped out...

 

ASG Blaster 0.2g

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The dirt came off the cutters.

 

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'Kknows where the red tint came from :lol:

 

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I had never noticed any sign of bubbles inside BB's before and I have seen plenty of shattered BB pieces. I have a sticky target set up at one end of the longest dimension of my flat and almost every time I shoot it on full-auto BB fragments end up all over the floor - just goes to show that I haven't paid much attention I suppose, because literally the 2nd one out of the bottle had what looks like 3 tiny bubbles at its centre. Even the 1st one, which is pretty mangled, has a bit in what was its centre that looks as if it could have been a concave surface...

 

Madbull Tan 0.4g (which cost me £24.09 posted for 2000):

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Literally the 1st one out of the pot, ffs, and the bubbles aren't even in the centre!

 

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Closer, but still no politically correct vape...

 

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3 for 3... quite frankly at that price I'm loath to cut any more of them up, even though my SVD hop rubber (the make of which I've forgotten) can't lift them properly, despite being just able to lift Vanaras 0.4g's all the way (but that's a subject for another experiment/discussion).

 

ASG Blaster Devil 0.3g

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Oh joy! The BB's I'd have put money on to be the most internally homogenous of those I had to hand, based on the consistency of their performance when shot, and the very 1st one out of the bottle has an anomaly way off centre...

 

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This one appears to be pretty good, but not perfect.

 

Vanaras Tan 0.4g (which were also usually expensive):

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That at least looks pretty central... (although I managed to get 4000 relatively cheap so I wouldn't have felt as disappointed as when I split the Madbulls)

 

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Hmmm...

 

P&J 0.32g (the heaviest white BB's currently in production):

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Errrr... what can I tell you?

 

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The distribution of the grey colour is not homogenous, but there doesn't seem to be any actual cavities. Interestingly (to nerds like me) the distribution of grey doesn't show as marbling on the outside, they are just a consistent off white, which I am going to infer results from polishing. Unlike above where colouration has resulted from random cack which has come off the tools, these really do have something grey inside them, it's just that it doesn't show that well (he added lamely :lol: )...

 

BB King 0.2g (the cheapest decent BB's there are):

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Listen people, you've read what I did and you've seen what happened. For now I'm not going to say another word.

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Someone was very bored?

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I was genuinely interested to know, Russ. I'll tell you one thing I've learned from the experiment: I'm not paying that much for Tan Madbull 0.4's again, no matter how rare the fuckers are!

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interesting. Our site wants us all to switch to bios. Hopefully they will be better than the above!

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This has got me intrigued, see if I can dig up a craft knife, then I'll split the different brands I've got in my cupboard - Rockets (Gunfire.PL ones)2's and 25's , Bioval 3's.

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Split some Blaster .30s that I got this morning in AirsoftEire,it's a fresh batch shipped in only a few days ago I believe. Didn't spot a bubble in the samples I picked out,I didn't cut them to well so anomalies may be from my weak arse. They Seem to be very homogeneous inside,no odd casting. Glad they are good because I paid 17 euro for them,seem to be better than the ''Diamond Grade'' Devils you have Ian :huh:

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After being washed performance is pretty good,noticeable difference in effective range and accuracy compared to devil and Marui .28s. Groupings marginally improved at 60m. No access to a target at 70m as of yet but I'm going to a Milsim in Bellurgan park tomoz so I can do a long range test there.

 

I need to get my hands on some .32s,but those china made P&J ones don't exactly inspire confidence.

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Might be ordering some bio P&J TaiwanGun BBs? So they are actually pretty good?

I will be getting a pack of 5000 Bio Guarder BBs from TG too, and .30g BLASTERS when I get my sniper rifle(s).

 

Patrol Base are always promoting their 'BB Bastards' as having no air bubble inside. In fact, I can tell you Ratty personally told me they will improve your performance so you should see the same accuracy as installing a tightbore.

I'd like to know if that's true!

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Between myself, brother and dad we have fired over 20k bio P&J beebs and they are just as good as the biosphere ones we usually use. Ive tried .20, .23 and .28

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While this is interesting, I would think there are a large number of factors which determine a bb's reliability. You are only looking at one of these.

How spherical are the bb's? Are there any surface imperfections? Is each bb a uniform weight?

The only way to compare the performance would be to put a gun in a vice and shoot a target over a set distance and study the grouping and number of fliers. The grouping diameter will tell you the general consistency, number of fliers will be a measure of how frequently there are serious anomalies.

You can then rescue as many of the fliers as possible intact and take multiple measurements of diameter with a micrometer, accurate weights with very accurate scales and then look for air bubbles. Then compare this data to the norm for that bb type and you will know what the important factors are in bb performance.

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Don't forget about JBBG's top quality 0.20g BBs, they are designed to optimise performance of all airsoft guns and are the best buy for your 6mm airsoft gun.

 

http://www.airsoft-forums.co.uk/index.php/topic/17878-the-unnerving-truth-about-jbbg-bulldog-bb-pellets/

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Absolutely Russ. I hope that this thread will encourage people to do some/any/all of that.

 

P&J 0.32's seem OK so far, Alex. Not as good as Devil 0.3's but only by a whisker - about the same as King Arms 0.3's (comparing by my experience of BB's i've actually fired a fair few of [sic])

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Weird !!!!

 

I was firing at a pair of goggles I use to test how they coped with being hit from close range (See Eyepro issue on other threads for reasons) Anyway I fired 24x rounds at the goggles from exactly 2 feet away using my Glock 23 GBB.

 

When I was sweeping up I noticed one of the Blaster .20g BB's had sheered in two (almost perfectly down the middle). I did pick it up & inspect it, but could not see any air bubbles in the centre.

 

I say weird because I was completely unaware of this thread when I did it.

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I had a tub of bulldog bb's, i used them all without a problem. Cut 5 in half today and found no bubbles in them. Are they a good pellet or am i just lucky?

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I had a tub of bulldog bb's, i used them all without a problem. Cut 5 in half today and found no bubbles in them. Are they a good pellet or am i just lucky?

 

Bulldogs are almost universaly not trusted by most airsofters. Might be because they are sold by a bbgunz website, or it could be that they really are crap.

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I had a tub of bulldog bb's, i used them all without a problem. Cut 5 in half today and found no bubbles in them. Are they a good pellet or am i just lucky?

 

I hope that wasn't through an expensive gun...

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Well, i'm hoping this thread will get us to look at the evidence and see what we can make of that, rather than going on rumour like we usually do. Can't say I've ever used Bulldog so I don't have an opinion. Still, for an experiment to be worth the name, we need to see the evidence...

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Here is some i cut,they are Bulldog bio .20 never had a blockage but after buying my new G&P

I was worried about using them,ive read a lot online saying not to use etc

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Aren't bulldogs rebranded BB king BBs? I remember seeing a thread either on Arnies or Airsofters about that.

Quite possibly, a lot of BBs and gas are just rebranded stuff from other brands.

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Dunno, Alex, but a link would be good! BB Kings are alright. I've fired about 40K of them and not had a single jam. Some of those fired through a 6.02mm barrel as well, probably 15K. I don't recall there being any more or less fliers than when shotting Blasters. Their polish isn't quite as good though, i think. Whatever the exact difference, Blasters are good for a couple or three more metres of hopped up flat trajectory at the end of their flight.

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