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Liam1992

Madbull DD SA80 Handguard Dimensions

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Morning Gents,

 

Looking at upgrading the R85 a little, and to bring it to somewhere close to current Spec for Operations in Afghanistan.

 

Therefore I shall be acquiring the RIS Handguard (Seen in link below)

 

http://www.actionhobbies.co.uk/Madbull-Daniel-Defense-L85-Handguard-Rail_A136MM.aspx

 

That is the cheapest I have found it, will gladly accept suggestions as to other places.

 

What I cant find however, is the dimensions for what battery will fit in there. The original handguard is a well known pain in the proverbial to fit a decent size battery in and I expect this shall be the same.

 

The weapon has the Large Style Tamiya connectors, and ideally I would like a 9.6V Battery like the one below.

 

http://component-shop.co.uk/html/8vp3300sc-h.html

 

The 45mm Width I do not believe I should be concerned about, but could anyone shed any light as to whether 180mm (+-5mm) will be a problem to fit.

 

Second Option is to fit externally, but will investigate that further once I hear back from you guys.

 

Cheers all,

Liam

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The only thing I've found that fits in is a 7.4v LiPo of 1300 to 1450mah.

 

They give about the same performance as a regular 9.6 and you can get them for about £15 or less. You will need to change the connector to a mini-tamiya or deans though, it'll be a pain squashing the bigger tamiyas in there.

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As Ed says, the RIS will in no way accept anything other than a Lipo. I just managed to squeeze a twin leg 2600mAh Lipo into mine, having taken the dimensions quoted on Componentshop.com as gospel for the battery pack, but found that the batteries were about 3mm wider when placed side by side than the details on the website. I therefore needed to use a Dremel to open out the bottom of the RIS sides to make the pack fit, which I didn't mind too much as I bought my RIS second-hand and not at the £125+ that most places wanted at the time.

 

A single leg pack will fit, just be sure to measure carefully the space available for it and buy smaller than the maximum space, remembering that you also need to be able to bend the connecting wires to fit around the barrel and mate with the feed to the motor and, if you haven't got a mosfet in circuit, fit a Lipo Alarm to make sure you don't run the battery down below the point at where it will not recover (i.e. below 3V per cell).

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Cheers for the heads up Gents, will definitely have to look into the Lipo option.

 

Another possibility, those rather Gucci looking external battery holders that fit to the RIS, I think they are designed to look like laser attachments, do they possibly have a slightly larger dimensions?

 

Do you know where I can get one of these Lipo alarms? I have read stories of these batteries expanding and the like, would rather invest to save, as it were.

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Apologies for posting twice consecutively but this is the first time I have gone about Upgrading an Airsoft Gun, so believe me there will be many many questions being posted on here in the near future.

 

So, taking your Lipo suggestion Ed, this should fit.

 

http://component-shop.co.uk/html/vp25c2s1300as.html

 

I do however, have a couple of questions:

 

On a days firing, in your experience, how long do they tend to last?

 

And secondly, they come with another connector (not the Tamiya ones), what is the purpose of that? (Connecting to charger perhaps???)

 

Oh and thirdly whilst I'm at it. If I dont get the Large Tamiya's fitted that are currently on the weapon, How on earth would I go about changing the connectors on the weapon itself to be small Tamiya connectors?

 

Cheers for your patience,

Liam

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As to connectors, they're not that difficult to fit if you, or someone you know, can wield a soldering iron. Deans (T type) connectors give a much better connection and don't "waste" as much power trying to connect over the thin Tamiya connectors. Componentshop will supply batteries fitted with a female Deans plug. You only need to buy a male plug and solder it in place of your large Tamiya to give a much better connection.

 

I think your second question refers to the small white plug on a Lipo. That's the balance lead and is the plug you use to charge the pack, through a special Lipo charger. You can buy the large multi-type chargers that do everything, but Componentshop do some small Lipo only chargers that work fine and cut off as soon as the battery reaches full capacity.

 

As to how long they last, a 1200mAh is probably good for about 2500 rounds or about 8 M4 hicaps. If you only get one, best thing to do is get the site charge it whilst you have lunch, as about an hour should be enough to get you through the rest of the afternoon. Alternatively, buy two and swap at lunch.

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I have one of the batteries you linked, but I prefer to use these: http://www.component-shop.co.uk/html/vp20c2s1450as.html

They're a much much better fit and they have a higher mah of 1450 as well, which means they last longer.

 

I can make the 1450 ones last all day and have on occasion made them last for almost 3 days, but that's because I very rarely use auto and only use 30 round magazines, so I carry less than 400 shots into each game, whereas most other people will probably have more than that in one hi-cap mag lol.

In short, it depends on your play style, if you burn through ammo like a fat kid with cake, you're going to need a few, if you're like me and can conserve ammo very well, one ought to do you fine. But, even I have 2 spares in case one goes down or I forget to charge them or something.

 

So to be on the safe side, I'd get 2 or 3 as well as one of these: http://www.component-shop.co.uk/html/battery_testers.html (third one down)

The lights go red once you approach the danger line so you know when to swap batteries. But, unlike other LiPo "alarms" they don't beep. So if you're in a tense as hell situation with the enemy 5ft from your face but unaware of you, your battery being low on charge isn't going to cause it to make a life threatening beeping sound lol. You can have it plugged in during play as well, so you can check your battery at a glace whenever you want. Just be aware that the lights can give your position away if you're sat in the dark.

 

As for the connectors, you could just try and see if you can manage with large connectors, they probably do fit, it'll just be a bit of a faff is all. And it's already quite a faff.

 

If you want to change them though, simply snip the wires to get the old connectors off, you'll want to have as little extra wire as possible so you've got more space in the RIS for plugging in the battery etc, use some wire strippers to expose the metal inner part, clamp the connector parts to the bare wire, solder it on, shove the bits into the new connector, ensuring you get it right for positive and negative polarity on the battery's connector and job's a good 'un.

 

I imagine they'll be some guides on YouTube, but it really isn't hard enough to warrant it in all honesty. Even I can rewire connectors and I bloody hate electronics.

 

Good luck, and I welcome the questions, it's what the forums are here for :)

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Ah right I see. I think two Lipo's on order should do. I think I will stick with the large connectors for now, I don't have a soldiering iron and other than my old secondary school, I have no idea of anyone who will!

 

I was expecting a Lipo alarm to be a lot more expensive than £3, worthwhile investment I do think!

 

Like you Ed, I will go for the Lo-cap option. Partly in the interest of Ammo conservation, and party to maintain the realism (ie: Next time out on the ranges and I get shocked when the working parts stay back at 30 rounds and not 300!). A question on that, which magazines do you use in your ICS? I assume all M4 Mags should fit as they are the same design/spec and you can buy 10x Star 30Rd magazines for <£40 in some places.

 

This hobby is going to become excessively expensive, Elcan 1x-4x Scope is definitely a self given Christmas present!

 

Liam

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I use official Magpul PTS dual window Emags in my L85, which sounds really arsey... But it's just what they're called lol. They're £20 a piece though and they don't come in multi-packs, so be prepared to mix magazines and periodically buy a couple more every now and then, I've got 12 now and that's all I can carry so it suits me well. That's 360 shots I take with me into each game. I've lasted up to 5 hours with that as well. I enjoy the challenge of making it all last.

 

I'd also suggest going for mid-caps instead of lows. There's a few reasons for it, the most pressing (for me anyway, being a realism freak) is that since AEG magazines drop around 4 BBs per reload, if your mag can only carry 30 rounds, then you actually only get 26 fireable rounds. So I buy mid caps and then just load them with 36 rounds, which gives me (I know the maths makes no sense, but trust me) 30 to 31 fireable shots. If you get a transparent speed loader, then 9 full plungers worth of 4 BBs per press, gives you exactly the right amount of shots to fire 30/31.

The other reason, is that if you're unsure whether you'll manage with 30 rounders, you can always just fill them to capacity.

There's also the fact that, if you buy them in small numbers, like if you went for the Emags from the off, then you can load them to full capacity to make up for not having that many to use. As one fully loaded mid cap will equate to around 4 real caps.

 

A note on looking for mags, any M4 style magazine ought to fit fine, if they don't then it ought to be fairly easy to make them fit better, just a case of filing them down a bit if they're a tight fit, or adding plastic to them if they're loose. Or you could wrap tape around the tops or something.

Also, if you look on airsoftsupplydrop (a forum sponsor, I'm happy to say) then there are some pretty nice sets of magazines you can get. I bought some MAG made mid caps when I started, I think you get 8 for around £40 or £50 and they're the best mags I've ever had, they're a sort of silver colour, which I'm not particularly fond of, but they feed fantastically, even better than my Emags which cost roughly 3 times as much per magazine.

 

But yes, you are right when you say it's certainly an expensive hobby... I mean, I've probably spent more on those magazines I mentioned than anyone just starting out would ever imagine spending on their entire set of kit...

 

Kinda daren't tell most people I know how much I've spent on airsoft since I started... I almost daren't even work it out haha

 

I figure it's worth it if you love it though, I can't think of anything I'd rather spend money on.

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Excellent shout on using mid-caps, I had forgotten about the endless stream of bb's that pour out the magazine from time to time.

 

Even better shout on that website, some excellent potential deals to be had on there. Been doing probably 4-5 days of research now and my shopping list is ever growing, just having to force myself to hold off till Post-Xmas, actually have two weeks leave for it this year and very much intend to enjoy them, but January, well, January I am going shopping for myself!

 

Whilst were at it, best 4X Sight system to fit to an L85? I want one of those new Elcan Spectre things but by christ there not cheap!

 

The worst of it all is I bought the R85 on a whim 3 years ago and its been boxed after about 300 rounds went through it ever since. Its shoved at the back of the garage and I wont be able to get it out and check it till next Friday either because I work away!!

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Haha, fingers crossed it's still there and giant garage spiders haven't eaten it.

 

As for fitting sights to L85s, I'm not sure which size rail the AA version has on it, I know that the Ares, WE and ICS versions have a 19mm doverail rail as per the real thing, but I'm unsure of G&G and AA.

 

Sadly, pretty much all optics are expensive, if you want a 4x zoom like with a SUSAT, Elcan Spectre DR or ACOG, you're looking at a minimum spend of around £60 if you're lucky. You're probably best looking on Ebay for something in Asia and then having it shipped over.

 

If you're adding the RIS and after authenticity though, then you could get any of the things I've mentioned above, though the SUSAT will fit straight on the rails the gun comes with - if it's the proper 19mm that it ought to be.

The ACOGs we're issued in Afghan come with a sexual raiser mount which brings it perfectly up to eye level and I think looks awesome and if you go for the Spectre and the rail is a standard 19mm, then you'll need a 19 to 20mm Picatinny rail conversion mount, to mount on the 19mm rail, to then mount the Spectre onto.

 

The Spectre is definitely the most expensive option, though I've seen a few here and there go for around £80. ACOGs can be pretty cheap, but the mount to make it look right is about £25 and then there's the good old SUSAT, which brand new are, like the others, in the hundred £ and up region.

 

It's up to you really. I actually quite like the regular iron sights, they're just not spectacularly useful in airsoft because they only adjust so far. It's much easier to sight in and configure some sort of optic.

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It hasn't been eaten by Spiders, but it will definitely need a bit of a clean up I imagine.

 

The AA rail is 20mm I believe, hence why the Star Susat doesn't fit. Dont mind spending a little of a decent Optic, there massively useful in real life, and despite the much shorter ranges I imagine being able to follow your fall of shot in airsoft is just as useful.

 

Shame I don't have access to the Armoury, sure we have a few SUSAT's lying about in there.

 

Think I am going to set a target of end of January to be game ready, get a game in late Jan and see how she tests out!

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If you want something properly decent, I can't recommend this enough:

 

http://www.rsov.com/...=13775&cateId=0

 

You get a very nice 4x ACOG with a red dot doctor sight sat on top, as well as the L85 raiser rail, all in one package. Looks almost exactly like the ones issues in Afghanistan, only difference in that it's lacking the protective wing mount for the red dot and the ACOG has some off-set iron sights on it, which the issued ones don't have.

 

I have the same optic though and it's cool as hell. Very nice, clear picture, nice reticule, good 4x zoom, easily adjustable and the red dot is spectacularly useful for low light conditions and snap shooting.

 

Here's a photo of me with mine:

9190_10151186531832913_1842644325_n.jpg

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Must admit that sight is particularly impressive. Good to see there is plenty of choice. Down as $139 US at the minute, any ideas what that would relate to in Pounds by the time it has been posted? Comes with the rail as well as you say, save some cash there definitely.

 

Is that Sniper tape around your foregrip as well?

 

Your weapon is essentially my aim end product. In fact, if i didn't know that was an airsoft weapon I could almost not notice that your an airsoft player, the give away is the AF-UK Velcro badge, of course...Must cost you an arm and a leg for all that kit.

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Yeah... Selling an arm and a leg would've probably wouldn't have covered it to be honest haha. Not even close to finished updating/adding bits to my kit yet either. Though the gun is aesthetically finished.

 

There's actually a thread in the review section for my L85. I keep meaning to add to it because I've actually had a few performance revelations since writing it.

I'll let you find it in your own time though. Might help you out with the external bits and bobs, the internals are different obviously, but you could always look into the hop and barrel parts I'm using as they ought to fit into your version of L85 as well. The Army L85 actually probably has a better hop unit, it'll just be harder to get the gearbox working nicely.

 

I ordered the same sight without the raiser mount from the same place as linked and it came to more or less £100 all in, including the postage, if I remember correctly.

The raiser mounts to buy separate from within the UK cost about £25, so to give you a rough estimate, ordering the whole package from RSOV would cost you roughly £125. At worst it won't come to anything more than the quoted price in dollars, in pounds, if that makes sense? So there's little to no chance of it being more than £140.

 

It is sniper tape on the foregrip, yeah. It's to hold the pressure switch for my Laser Light Module in place. I've also seen photos from Afghan of troops doing the same thing, so that was my inspiration.

 

The only thing that still bothers me about my gun is that you can see the wiring through the ventilation holes in the upper receiver and in the RIS.

Might wrap it all with black electrical tape next time I have it apart.

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If your going for the British Army look you need a MkVII helmet without a doubt, though they shouldn't be publicly available, then again I dont think 6's should either.

 

I shall definitely be digging out that thread, any reading is good reading as I see it.

 

Just don't go wrapping sniper tape round your helmet cover like you see some do, pretty sure it came out in SOP's as a big no no earlier this year, allow myself to be corrected however.

 

Just trying to think what other questions I have, hmm...I shall save them for now! Need to assess the weapon this weekend first.

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Yeah, there's a MkVII on my to-buy list, as well as an Osprey MkIV and a new MTP UBACS of the PCS generation.

 

Lowa/Magnum boots too.

 

When I've got all that and the appropriate pouches I'll be pretty much done. Maybe get a patrol pack of some description as well, for carrying even more magazines and camping shiz for milsim events and things like that.

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On the Boots thing. Don't discount Altberg's. I wear them myself and a hell of a lot of the lads do as well, if your going for the full look there definitely worth a shout.

 

Wear the Sneeker's myself, 600ish grams a boot and solid as, million times better boot than the issue one.

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How much to Altbergs go for then? 'Cos I found some desert Magnums for £25 the other week, doubt I'll find better than that tbh. At £25 I can even keep replacing them if they're crap.

 

Only thing stopping me ordering them is that I can't remember by shoe size...

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Fair point. I use mine every day so were worth the £130, more of an investment to get a pair that lasts.

 

Honestly I'd go for the Magnums for Airsoft use, and for £25 for a Desert pair you have yourself a bargain.

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Instead of starting a new topic I may as well add to this one.

 

6.01mm Madbull Tightbore

 

or

 

6.03 Madbull Tightbore

 

Same website, at 509mm, is only a £3 difference (£39 and £36 respectively)

 

So, why get .03 when you can get .01?

 

Cheers,

Liam

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Sorry, didn't see this!

 

The "which bore is best" debate is almost everlasting.

 

The consensus seems to be that 6.03 is the best, 6.01 is held in disregard because people say they get jammed up because obviously, they're a tighter fit around the BB.

But then there's the "expensive" upgrade parts companies, that tend to market 6.08 as their most accurate barrels and there's also barrels you can get which are rifled.

 

I use a 6.01 in my L85 and I've used 6.03 and the rifled "twist" barrels too. 6.01 gives by far the best performance. Greater range and accuracy than the others if all other things are equal.

 

The reports of them jamming seem to be a load of bollocks, I've never had a BB jam with mine and I've never cleaned it or anything. Just use good quality BBs that have been polished... Which practically all have apart from those misshapen shite ones from Skegness that are obviously dodgy lol.

 

Only downside can also be considered an upside. Due to the tighter bore, they up your fps by around 30, which can take you over your site limit in some cases.

But on the flip side, this means you can use a spring less powerful, which means you'll get a better rate of fire, a quicker trigger response and it'll also increase the life of your gun's internals by a small fraction due to the lower strain of the spring meaning your motor and gears don't have to work as hard to turn the mechanism over.

 

As for the barrel brand, Madbull barrels are perfectly fine and reasonably priced. The Black Python V2 6.03s seem to pop up everywhere and everyone and their mums have got them fitted in their guns.

Mine is a Madbull V1 455mm long 6.01 diameter one though. I would have a 509mm, but I initially bought the barrel for an M4 project and it ended up being about an inch too long, so I tried it in the L85 and decided to keep it in there. Only about £30 too.

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Well Ed,

 

You have thrown a spanner in the works there a little. I was dead set on the 6.03mm Madbull for that jamming reason alone, but if you haven't had any problems then why not eh?

 

As for the L85 project, been away on holiday so its slowed a little. I decided that I prefer SUSAT's to ACOG's ten fold so sourced a second hand one of them which is being fitted today.

 

Also sourced a real steel Handguard which should be delivered by the end of the week, just been paid too...So might go a little crazy! I'll get some photos on when she is done!

 

Liam

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Probably worth mentioning that if your rifle isn't a Star or Ares, the real handguard probably wont fit unless you mod it in some way or another. I'm pretty confident that the other makes (AA/ICS/WE/G&G) have their handguards attach in a different ways to the RS/Ares/Star. I'm sure Airsoft-Ed will probably know for definite and can clarify.

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I can't report on the Army L85's compatibility with the real steel hand guards, but I know that the Madbull RIS hand guard fits on the Army, so the real one most likely won't without some degree of modification.

 

How much modification? I can't say, but there's bound to be some info online about it somewhere, or RR01 might know.

 

I might be wrong, it might just go straight on with no issues at all.

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