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Danch

Mounting a video camera on a rail?

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Hi. Me and my friends are getting into airsoft, but I would like to record some of the games we go to. They recordings will only be for my friends and I to watch and im not really bothered about sticking them on YouTube, so would just like some advise on cameras and such.

 

Now, I dont want to spend rediculous amounts on it all, id say maybe £150 max but if I feel the need I could allow for more. So my question is, for that kind of price range what cameras could I buy that are small enough and tough enough to not get destroyed and can be easily mounted onto the standard rail?

 

Thanks for the help in advance and sorry if I complicated that more than neccesary.

 

Dan

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Contour make a very good camera than weighs 150 gms and you can also buy a waterproof case for it but will cost over £200 all in.

 

I doubt if any camera is made to be shot at and an unlucky hit will probably cause damage.

 

Have you looked at some of the HD `spy' cameras that you can buy for under £20 (plus the mini sd card) like the one shown in this ling:-

 

http://www.spygadgets4u.co.uk/spy-cameras/...ctivation-.html

 

We used these on my son's go-kart and the link below will give you an idea of picture quality. Bear in mind that the camera was on a go-kart that would do around 80 mph with a lot of vibration.

 

 

These are small enough to tape to the side of your gun, onto webbing or on the side of a helmet (if you wear one). A direct hit on the lens would probably break it but the lens is about the size of a BB pellet so would have to be a very unlucky shot. Otherwise they are fairly strong but again I don't know how they would stand up to a full auto burst from close range!

 

At thiese prices you need not worry too much if they do get damaged as you just buy another one.

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Contour HD! hear you go....make sure you change settings to 1080p :)

 

 

cost of the camera £149.99

 

Cost of Waterproof protective case £19.99

 

Cost of Picatinny rail - £14.99

 

= priceless!

 

Protects the lens from damage.....enables full clarity stil.....and allows that bit of audio through.....

 

To me any other camera is just not worth it!!

 

Been through a few and also have been at the hands of a shot out Contour HD! very upset :( but protective lens has now been shot over and over with no problems.

 

Have mounted it down the side of the gun too:-

 

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Yeah that contour does looks very good to be fair and I may have to invest the extra money. However I read the battery only lasts 2-2.5 hours? Is this enough time generally to not be constantly charging do you find?

 

Cheers for the replies btw :)

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Yeah that contour does looks very good to be fair and I may have to invest the extra money. However I read the battery only lasts 2-2.5 hours? Is this enough time generally to not be constantly charging do you find?

 

Cheers for the replies btw :)

 

 

to be honest my 32gb memory card fills before the battery dies! i film in 1080p and i think i get about 8 mins footage per GB.

 

I have never had a problem with it to be honest. Used it for almost 3hours of footage uncharged and still runs good.

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Yeah that contour does looks very good to be fair and I may have to invest the extra money. However I read the battery only lasts 2-2.5 hours? Is this enough time generally to not be constantly charging do you find?

 

Cheers for the replies btw :)

 

With the contour you can buy an extra battery for around £20 so that should give you plenty of video.

 

Bear in mind that if you record 5 hours of game play then you need 5 hours to watch it. Also, with a camera mounted on your gun you are only going to get a limited view of the game play - just wherever your gun is pointing. You may find you soon get bored with the footage whereas taking it in turns with your friends to act as cameraman with a normal hd recorder would give you better footage of the day (look at some of the ones on you tube).

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i use the go pro hero in 960 p at 60fps and that has just as goos quality as 1080p but takes up less space,comes with protective casing and had mine shot at a few times now

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I'm glad this thread exists because it saves me posting another, which I was just about to.

 

I'm looking at getting the GoPro HD Hero2, mainly because of it being the leading brand, apparently the best action camera there is, the fact it has very good audio an 11MP camera, 170 degree lens AND because it's reduced by £60 on Amazon at the moment...

 

The only thing bothering me is the size of it, it's about as big as a clenched fist, so it's pretty bulky for attaching to a helmet and it also weighs about 750g, which I think is quite a lot...

 

Is it worth the £240 price tag or is there any better options?

 

I'm tempted by the Contour having seen your footage, Chris, but I'd be tempted to run it without the protective case because I can't stand the quality of the audio in your videos. Would there be a massive risk of it breaking? I imagine it's more of an issue for you because you play CQB, I'm more about sneaking around and picking off people who are unaware of me at range...

 

Decisions decisions...

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How do you mount it to yourself, Josh? Can you link me to the helmet attachment rig you've got?

 

I'm thinking of getting a newer helmet with one of those NVG fixtures on it, so it'd be cool if I could fasten it to that somehow lol.

 

You'd definitely recommend it though?

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I'm glad this thread exists because it saves me posting another, which I was just about to.

 

I'm looking at getting the GoPro HD Hero2, mainly because of it being the leading brand, apparently the best action camera there is, the fact it has very good audio an 11MP camera, 170 degree lens AND because it's reduced by £60 on Amazon at the moment...

 

The only thing bothering me is the size of it, it's about as big as a clenched fist, so it's pretty bulky for attaching to a helmet and it also weighs about 750g, which I think is quite a lot...

 

Is it worth the £240 price tag or is there any better options?

 

I'm tempted by the Contour having seen your footage, Chris, but I'd be tempted to run it without the protective case because I can't stand the quality of the audio in your videos. Would there be a massive risk of it breaking? I imagine it's more of an issue for you because you play CQB, I'm more about sneaking around and picking off people who are unaware of me at range...

 

Decisions decisions...

 

I would say running it in its small profile without case would work fine. im led to believe you can get an external mic for the contour in the protective case but not looked in to it to be honest.

 

Im not a fan of go pro's - have had 2 and just couldnt get on with them and ended up going to the contour....with the countour having a rotatable lens you can lign it up to be level no matter what angle where as the go pro is just fixed to where it is.

 

Due to the side mount the countour sits perfect on side of helmets or guns etc...go pro has to be frontal or be a huge weight on the side of you to get a forward shot.

 

I play CQB so its always going to get shot out as its on my leading edge when looking out so if you have a different play style to me then it will be perfect.

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its not noticeable on my helmet to be honest,it films great footage and the hero 2 is 1080p at 60fps

 

Contour Roam is 5.1 oz

 

Go pro is 5.9 oz

 

 

and josh: Go Pro 2 can only run 60fps @ 720p!! NOT 1080p

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Ah so you've had GoPros then, that's an interesting development. The rotating camera is a nice touch as well, I'd really not thought about that at all.

 

Is it the Contour Roam that you have, or do you have a different one?

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Ah so you've had GoPros then, that's an interesting development. The rotating camera is a nice touch as well, I'd really not thought about that at all.

 

Is it the Contour Roam that you have, or do you have a different one?

 

Ye ive had go pro's just not a fan, so limited on mounting it that its useless. great if your using a mount for a bike / car etc..but for what we do...just plain NO!

 

 

Yes matey I have the contour roam. The step above has bluetooth, gps etc... but cost jumps up too - but does have mic cable too.

 

Ye the rotating lens is good. essentially means that with my head on a tilt i can set the lens up to still be straight...so if your a sit and pick of person then you can sent it up for your head lean, personally alot of my CQB action is run about so i leave it set up for me standing straight.

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Tachyon XC Micro or Mini HD is Great too and so much smaller than Both load's of different mount's too and a cheaper way to protect the len's is they have a little 90P bit of plastic you slide over it which protects the body aswell! it dosn't rotate like a Conotur len's though i'd say get a contour for your head and a tachyon for your rifle and a Go Pro for nothing

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This is all interesting feedback, I've just got this feeling that more is better. More mega pixel camera, more frames per second, more audio clarity = GoPro.

 

But, if all that comes at the cost of mounting limitations, weight and cost, then maybe I'd be better off sacrificing some things slightly...

 

I just have no idea, I can't shake the feeling that I wouldn't be satisfied without the GoPro, but the resolution of the Contour is enough for what I want and the footage of your videos from The Stan looks up to the standard I'm after...

 

What I want, basically is footage clear and smooth enough to be able to see shots in flight, the camera to auto adjust for focusing at any distance and for changes in brightness, as well as being shock proof and not wobbling around everywhere and the sound clarity thing is a big thing for me, I want the video to sound like it sounded to me whilst I was recording it.

 

The idea is to edit the video as little as possible, so I think the GoPro will aid that a little better, the wide angle will give a better field of view, the HD recording and 60fps will help the smoothness and clarity and the sound will make it easier to understand my comms and whatnot. The Contour feels like it'd be lacking in one or more of those aspects and the Tachyons I've looked at only shoot 720p and 30fps, which is more of a GunCam only sort of set up, I'm specifically after something headmounted, I'm going for a 1st person shooter feel.

 

Though I might get a gun cam later on once I've got to grips with the editing software and everything, I always thought it'd be cool to combine footage from two cameras into one video, maybe even 3 camera, one on my head, one on my gun and one of another person, following me around. All angles would be covered then, it'd be like watching a film lol.

 

But yeah...

 

Still edging towards the GoPro the more I think about it... Is there a better Contour than the Roam?

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This is all interesting feedback, I've just got this feeling that more is better. More mega pixel camera, more frames per second, more audio clarity = GoPro.

 

But, if all that comes at the cost of mounting limitations, weight and cost, then maybe I'd be better off sacrificing some things slightly...

 

I just have no idea, I can't shake the feeling that I wouldn't be satisfied without the GoPro, but the resolution of the Contour is enough for what I want and the footage of your videos from The Stan looks up to the standard I'm after...

 

What I want, basically is footage clear and smooth enough to be able to see shots in flight, the camera to auto adjust for focusing at any distance and for changes in brightness, as well as being shock proof and not wobbling around everywhere and the sound clarity thing is a big thing for me, I want the video to sound like it sounded to me whilst I was recording it.

 

The idea is to edit the video as little as possible, so I think the GoPro will aid that a little better, the wide angle will give a better field of view, the HD recording and 60fps will help the smoothness and clarity and the sound will make it easier to understand my comms and whatnot. The Contour feels like it'd be lacking in one or more of those aspects and the Tachyons I've looked at only shoot 720p and 30fps, which is more of a GunCam only sort of set up, I'm specifically after something headmounted, I'm going for a 1st person shooter feel.

 

Though I might get a gun cam later on once I've got to grips with the editing software and everything, I always thought it'd be cool to combine footage from two cameras into one video, maybe even 3 camera, one on my head, one on my gun and one of another person, following me around. All angles would be covered then, it'd be like watching a film lol.

 

But yeah...

 

Still edging towards the GoPro the more I think about it... Is there a better Contour than the Roam?

 

there are 3 standards of contour. But you say about the 60fps...the contour does exactly the same as the go pro...

 

here you go

 

 

this chap has then taken the same 60fps in flight and converted it to 30fps giving it a slow mo effect

 

 

 

You talk about field of view but the contour roam is 170 degree and the go pro is 170 degree. it also not all about MP of the camera it is also the quality of the lens...

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if you do want an added bonus....in the contour up from the roam, you can set up the bluetooth to work with the iphone...giving you full adjustment at your finger tips

 

 

skip to 5minutes

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In that RC flight video, the brightness really spazzes out at times, when he's looking downwards the brightness is fine, it looks like day, but if he's flying up, especially towards the sun (which I know is to be expected) you can't see anything.

 

Playing in woodland when looking into and out of the sun and going into and out of small buildings etc. could really screw with the brightness of the footage and the GoPro is "supposed" to have cut down on that effect by some significant margin... But I take the point about the frame rate and resolution being the same...

 

I wish I could just look at and play around with both in real life for a day, how the hell is anyone supposed to make up their mind about things these days?! Arrghghghnsflkndsfjknskvjnsfvlkjbdsfdfvwe... Brain pain =[

 

Still thinking GoPro at the moment. Despite its flaws, the most prominent of which are the size, weight and bulky, square appearance of it... Contour definitely looks better, picture is the same...

 

Let's lay out the cards then:

 

Go Pro

Pros:

- Biggest name brand in the business, that's got to bring some perks, right?

- Boasts high audio clarity

- Boasts reduced glare effects and brightness/dimness changes

 

Cons:

- The price

- The size

- The general shape and box-like appearance

 

Contour

Pros:

- Same picture as the GoPro

- More ergonomic, aesthetically appealing design

- Rotation feature

- The weight

 

Cons:

- Sound clarity lacking

- Brightness/dimness issues

 

So it comes down to the sound and the brightness issue really... Which I can probably live with if it means getting a more user friendly, as well as airsoft friendly camera...

 

You might be on your way to swaying my vote to the Contour crowd...

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the Go Pro is the same as the contour regarding the light adjustment and Go Pro are only better known because TV show's use them when everyone else choose's Contoor or Tachyon why well their better for the price to someone who isn't a massive money making machine...

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Tell you what, Ill take a video of my gun firing and playing music without the waterproof case on.

 

Baring in mind this is the case it is in

 

http://www.craniologie.com/shop/details/000001404

 

the only reason you can hear only limited amount is that you can adjust the mic sensitivity in the settings.

 

You are right about the brightness. Go pro does control it a little better however the sacrifice to me is the go pro gives a warm look to its images which made it looked false. Thus why i like the contour as the colours are more true i feel.

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That case is quite mental lol, I can fully see why the sound is dampened now... I wonder if there's a comparison review on Youtube anywhere.

 

I'd appreciate the recording though, could you do it outside? Might be a bit echo-y inside. Maybe even both at the same time, with a real time voice over, just to see how it picks up movement, voices and the gun firing?

 

I wonder what Scoutthedoggie uses... Probably just a regular style, expensive camcorder.

 

I think that for the size, shape and look, the Contour is winning for me. I don't like the look of the GoPro at all, I'd feel like I had a box attached to my head, which would probably look pretty stupid. But the brightness thing, as well as the sound are things I feel are more relevant to filming outdoors in woodland, 'cos if I turn around to face the sun if it's low in the sky, or come out of a building, then that glare problem is going to be pretty bad and I'm not even going to know it's happening until I watch the playback. Sound outdoors has less obstructions as well, no walls to bounce off or anything, so it's easier to talk to people and use comms, which I'd like to include in the best possible way...

 

Then there's the fact the Contour is about £100 cheaper...

 

I'm really beginning to turn, y'know? I wish the GoPro had a person here fighting for it to same degree as the Contour's supporter lol

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ye ill do that for you mate.

 

As i say, if i had anything good to say about the go pro i would....but i dont unfortunately. having tried 4 recording devics being 2 x contour and 2 x go pro there is a reason i went back to contour.

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I just spoke to airsoft world via a photo on their Facebook page about it and the consensus seems to be that Contour wins lol, I think I'll live without you doing that recording for me, but I'd still appreciate it if you feel so inclined.

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What I want, basically is footage clear and smooth enough to be able to see shots in flight, the camera to auto adjust for focusing at any distance and for changes in brightness, as well as being shock proof and not wobbling around everywhere and the sound clarity thing is a big thing for me, I want the video to sound like it sounded to me whilst I was recording it.

I think I've mentioned to you before that I'm a sound engineer, yeah? Well, whatever, I am lol! Let me just add some perspective here: You could use a £5000 dedicated audio set up synched to your video and it still wouldn't sound like it did when you were there. When it comes to built in microphones, you've got to bear in mind that the diaphragm is always going to be tiny (< 1cm tops) and a professional condenser mic has a diaphragm about an inch across made from gold plated polymers etc. Also consider that although your ears are less than a foot apart, to record stereo it rarely works that well to simply put 2 mics a head width apart pointing in opposite directions. On a camera, if it records stereo at all, the 2 mics can never be further apart than the width of the camera. It's obviously much more complex than that, but I'm sure you get the drift.

 

When I studied at uni we also did a bit of work with video, so i'll mention a few things that occur to me:

 

1) UK HD TV is broadcast is broadcast at 50 fields per second. Each frame is made of 2 fields, each of which contains every other line of pixel data, so it's 25 frames per second, the same as analogue TV. Feature films are recorded at 24 frames per second, unless there is a need for slo-mo. Basically, unless you want mega crisp slo-mo and are willing to pay the extra for the odd time you'll use it, you don't need 60fps.

 

2) I agree that head mounting is a better idea than gun mounting for video that you want to watch all of, but bear in mind that when you see shakey camera work in films/tv dramas etc, what you're really seeing is an expert deliberately adding precisely what the director wants, often with the camera, counter-intuitively, on a steadycam rig. What you're going to get is pretty random, because nobody holds their head bang upright for long and there will only be your neck wobble cushioning the jarring up down and side to side as you move.

 

3) It's the holy grail of film-making to be able to just shoot a subject and not have to edit it. The truth is that in reality "the story" of what happened, even while you were living it, does not happen purely in front of you. Of course there are things happening which you hear but don't see and, in theory at least, you could capture those sounds onto the film soundtrack, but I'm also on about your internal world. Human experience isn't just made up of what we get from our senses, it is also what we think about as we experience those inputs, so for eg we may hear something a fair way off and know that it means that the enemy are outflanking your position. How do you represent the frisson of fear/excitement that you feel? A sound panned hard left, say, just tells the audience that something has happened somewhere off camera to the left. Editing, score and SFX...

 

That's not to say don't have a go tho - check out various vids and find out what they were filmed on and what the sound set up was. It's amazing how you can get lucky with bits of amateur footage where it all just magically happens in the perfect conditions for that camera/mic and at a speed which is perfect for you to keep apace of... go for it mate!

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