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Nutster

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Game uniform requirements for my team was to wear woodland camouflage. Urban camo patterns are beyond useless either way, there's no reliable way to conceal yourself when your backdrop is bricks and white painted walls.

 

Fair one, urban camo uniforms are pretty much Operation Broken Pencil! totally pointless! The best cam is your field craft and personal skills, especially in an urban/CQB environment, cover from view and cover from fire, use of shadows etc.

We did use to employ an urban cam on AVs in Berlin, a block pattern of black/white/grey, but thankfully that never made it on to clothing!!

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Game uniform requirements for my team was to wear woodland camouflage. Urban camo patterns are beyond useless either way, there's no reliable way to conceal yourself when your backdrop is bricks and white painted walls.

 

Fair enough if it was a requirement to wear a certain pattern, and obviously in that case it aids with recognition between friend and foe, which is of course one of the other purposes of specific camp patterns.

 

Having said that, I'm sure most of us are aware that camouflage is not merely about attempting complete concealment, its other purpose is to break up outlines in order to make rapid recognition and range finding more difficult for your enemy even when they do spot you, which it does through the function of not appearing as a recognisable shape for your enemy to process mentally when his eyes make saccade sweeps. There's little doubt that any sort of foliage pattern isn't going to do a great job of that against urban backdrops, since the tonal ranges are so different, urban camouflage will make that mental recognition process from a saccade sweep slower for an enemy, which is why such patterns are developed, although I'm inclined to think something like Finnish Snow Pattern might arguably do as well in an urban environment.

 

It's interesting to note that few militaries have actually officially adopted any urban camouflage patterns, whereas they do get used a lot by Military SF and SWAT units quite regularly, since they have found them to be more effective when deployed to urban areas. I suppose this is a case of horses for courses and also a testament to the notion that that Military Intelligence is indeed sometimes a contradiction in terms in the light of that evidence. Those of us who were around in the Seventies will doubtless recall how ridiculous and indeed scandalous it was that British troops had to patrol around the streets of Belfast wearing woodland camouflage patterns, which made them stick out like a sore thumb, whilst carrying FNs and SLRs suitable for engaging targets a long ranges, as opposed to something more suited to engaging a target across the street from them, as was likely to be the case. Meaning neither the troop's clothing nor his weapon was suited to the task at hand. Some things never change of course, more recently during the 1991 Gulf War, the first troops out to the region were being sent out with green woodland pattern battledress whilst riding vehicles still painted in olive drab patterns designed for combat on the plains of Germany during the Cold War. So once again the old saying about the British Army being 'the best trained and the worst equipped' was true.

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It's interesting to note that few militaries have actually officially adopted any urban camouflage patterns, whereas they do get used a lot by Military SF and SWAT units quite regularly, since they have found them to be more effective when deployed to urban areas. I suppose this is a case of horses for courses and also a testament to the notion that that Military Intelligence is indeed sometimes a contradiction in terms in the light of that evidence. Those of us who were around in the Seventies will doubtless recall how ridiculous and indeed scandalous it was that British troops had to patrol around the streets of Belfast wearing woodland camouflage patterns, which made them stick out like a sore thumb, whilst carrying FNs and SLRs suitable for engaging targets a long ranges, as opposed to something more suited to engaging a target across the street from them, as was likely to be the case. Meaning neither the troop's clothing nor his weapon was suited to the task at hand. Some things never change of course, more recently during the 1991 Gulf War, the first troops out to the region were being sent out with green woodland pattern battledress whilst riding vehicles still painted in olive drab patterns designed for combat on the plains of Germany during the Cold War. So once again the old saying about the British Army being 'the best trained and the worst equipped' was true.

 

You're right about the suitability of the SLR for close quarters work but ISTR that they also had access to the Stirling SMG at the time if need be. Also - worth remembering that sometimes a uniform is NOT for concealment but for a show of force. The British patrols in NI weren't always looking to be concealed they needed to be seen as a deterrent. We had plenty of undercover types in plain clothes for concealment when the situation required (the best way to blend in for an urban environment is just jeans and a jacket after all). Some US police forces have adopted ATACS LE for the same reason, not because it hides them in an urban environment (let's face it - anyone wearing a dark uniform, tac vest and ballistic helmet is going to stick out in a shopping mall) but to look imposing and be a show of force.

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True, that almost certainly was the intent of the British Government in deploying troops to Northern Ireland, but most people I know who actually had to walk those streets dressed like that would have preferred to be hidden! Ironically enough, everyone i know who served in NI, almost to a man, says the average person was great with them and the last thing they wanted to do was to be throwing their weight around. Having been personally threatened by the IRA back in the Seventies (long story, and water under the bridge in these more peaceful times, so I won't bore people with it), I can well understand the desire of guys with their boots on the ground to be hidden as best they can. :)

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True, that almost certainly was the intent of the British Government in deploying troops to Northern Ireland, but most people I know who actually had to walk those streets dressed like that would have preferred to be hidden! Ironically enough, everyone i know who served in NI, almost to a man, says the average person was great with them and the last thing they wanted to do was to be throwing their weight around. Having been personally threatened by the IRA back in the Seventies (long story, and ancient history, so I won't bore people with it), I can well understand the desire of guys with their boots on the ground to be hidden as best they can. :)

 

Oh I don't doubt that for a second, but then there is a well documented gulf between the operational requirements of a government and the individual desire of the rank and file infantryman! Having followed an armoured patrol through Coleraine as recently as the 90's having an SA80 pointed straight at me, nobody could accuse them of trying to hide!

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A-TACS :D hhnnnhg so nice

Can't keep buying different camos / load outs tho

I got shut of two of my loadouts to get Atacs FG and its decent. Really like it. The two things I hate about it though is the price for some of the kit and the fact there's not much available with different bits.
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Gotta respect the commitment, Cavninja. Shame it's gone into what is ultimately a spiffy version of what at least 60% of UK airsofters are wearing & carrying. Just imagine how individual you could have been with a Modern Russian loadout... there are so many patterns of camo and uniform cut that you could be pretty certain to be the only one in the UK...

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Gotta respect the commitment, Cavninja. Shame it's gone into what is ultimately a spiffy version of what at least 60% of UK airsofters are wearing & carrying. Just imagine how individual you could have been with a Modern Russian loadout... there are so many patterns of camo and uniform cut that you could be pretty certain to be the only one in the UK...

Cheers Ian, fair one, but I just like multicam! lol sad but true

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Was it really necessary to quote the whole of Cavninja's post just to ask a simple question? You could have just put his name in the question and not bothered with the quote at all ffs!

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It would appear so, made it more visually appealing :P

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Cavninja, how are those boots? I just got exactly the same pair for christmas but I haven't had a chance to get out and give them a go yet. Specifically, how waterproof are they?

 

Very comfy, I've only done a couple of CQB skirmishes with them so far, so not really put them through their full paces. I had planned some decent hill walking between Christmas and New Year, but i think it'd be a bit daft given the current weather conditions. I've used Salomon boots for years and worn them in some atrocious conditions and they've always served me well, very comfortable and very water proof.

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