Battery issue - G&G TR16

[WhatsMyName]

Hi guys.

Hope You can help.

So I have this problem.

 

Got G&G TR16

Old Carisma RC Battery 7.2V 1400mah

New VP 9.6V 1600mah nunchucks

Gun worked on both.

Now doesnt work on new ones.

 

I tried to charge them but they show 0.35V?!? 

 

Both brand new batteries shot?

 

 

[WhatsMyName]

[WhatsMyName]

So it would seem anything over 7.2v overheats/burns my mosfets.

7.2v 1400mah is fine

8.4v 2100mah is too much

9.6v 1600mah is too much

So what now? Change the battery or go for nano ssr?

Had 3 mosfets now only have original g&g one. Others died a painfull death.

 

I'm new to airsoft so would appreciate Your help.

Thanks

[Samurai]

FETs create more problems than they solve.

[Sitting Duck]

4 hours ago, Samurai said:

FETs create more problems than they solve.

 

None more so than the G&G mosfets....

Seems like this is a ye olde Top-Tech G&G basic mosfet produced from high quality Dairy Lea

Which helped to pave the way for the not so fantastic ETU mosfet - jeeeez

 

OP - you should have 2 x thin signal wires I think but not had personal experience with G&G basic fet

Though digging around this seems to be the lemony G&G Top-Tech that lasts less that a mid cap in a spray n pray battle

 

If you can solder a pair of deans once you cut out the old mosfet from the wiring loom it "should" work

The two thin switch wires should work or splice them into the connector on the SSR

(basically it is just the standard 2 pin jumper or PC motherboard connector type of thingy)

The Gate SSR will have the tiny points that send out the thin supply/signal which should be how the G&G loom is setup

 

Should work and be fairly straight forward, cut mosfet out & solder deans in place to plug in the SSR

 

You can leave the tamiya connector for now for your batteries atm

Please note - if you decide to upgrade to final deans on gun/battery/charger

ONLY CUT ONE BATTERY WIRE AT A TIME AND SOLDER

silly common mistake when fitting deans to batteries without thinking - cut both wires together = BANG

Lipo shorts really make you $hit your own shorts - so for now...

cut out the G&G mosfet, solder deans - pay attention to polarity and correct connector - gun has male deans

should be ok - see how you go for a while

 

If unsure anybody with a bit of soldering experience can do it if they got common sense and take their time to check stuff

Hope it works out ok for ya - poxy G&G mosfets

[WhatsMyName]

1 hour ago, Sitting Duck said:

 

None more so than the G&G mosfets....

Seems like this is a ye olde Top-Tech G&G basic mosfet produced from high quality Dairy Lea

Which helped to pave the way for the not so fantastic ETU mosfet - jeeeez

 

OP - you should have 2 x thin signal wires I think but not had personal experience with G&G basic fet

Though digging around this seems to be the lemony G&G Top-Tech that lasts less that a mid cap in a spray n pray battle

 

If you can solder a pair of deans once you cut out the old mosfet from the wiring loom it "should" work

The two thin switch wires should work or splice them into the connector on the SSR

(basically it is just the standard 2 pin jumper or PC motherboard connector type of thingy)

The Gate SSR will have the tiny points that send out the thin supply/signal which should be how the G&G loom is setup

 

Should work and be fairly straight forward, cut mosfet out & solder deans in place to plug in the SSR

 

You can leave the tamiya connector for now for your batteries atm

Please note - if you decide to upgrade to final deans on gun/battery/charger

ONLY CUT ONE BATTERY WIRE AT A TIME AND SOLDER

silly common mistake when fitting deans to batteries without thinking - cut both wires together = BANG

Lipo shorts really make you $hit your own shorts - so for now...

cut out the G&G mosfet, solder deans - pay attention to polarity and correct connector - gun has male deans

should be ok - see how you go for a while

 

If unsure anybody with a bit of soldering experience can do it if they got common sense and take their time to check stuff

Hope it works out ok for ya - poxy G&G mosfets

Thats great info.

Thanks.

 

Like You said I've got 2 thin signal wires

and 2 "power" wires.

 

Just thinking if it would make sense to go for ASR rather than SSR?

At least on paper ASR seems better for few more bob...

[Sitting Duck]

Yeah - suppose, depends which one you can get hold of

 

http://www.patrolbase.co.uk/airsoft-switches-selectors-and-mosfets/gate-nanoasr-3rd-gen-advanced-solid-state-relay-mosfet.htm#.Wbd7Z7KGPIU

 

but depends on shipping cost and/or what might be local to you or if it is in stock

couple of extra features - but either will do and certainly be more reliable & wiser than buying another G&G one

you get the required deans connector & heatshrink tubing etc... included - all the bits you could need

[WhatsMyName]

On 12/09/2017 at 7:21 AM, Sitting Duck said:

Yeah - suppose, depends which one you can get hold of

 

http://www.patrolbase.co.uk/airsoft-switches-selectors-and-mosfets/gate-nanoasr-3rd-gen-advanced-solid-state-relay-mosfet.htm#.Wbd7Z7KGPIU

 

but depends on shipping cost and/or what might be local to you or if it is in stock

couple of extra features - but either will do and certainly be more reliable & wiser than buying another G&G one

you get the required deans connector & heatshrink tubing etc... included - all the bits you could need

Thanks again.

Worked a treat.

I shimmed the gearbox, cleaned it, greased it and chaged bearings for new ones as well.

Got a bit of a motor whine still but will try to adjust it and test it in the morning.

Either way- gun now works and it's quieter than before.

Not bad for a noob...

[Sitting Duck]

30 minutes ago, WhatsMyName said:

Thanks again.

Worked a treat.

I shimmed the gearbox, cleaned it, greased it and chaged bearings for new ones as well.

Got a bit of a motor whine still but will try to adjust it and test it in the morning.

Either way- gun now works and it's quieter than before.

Not bad for a noob...

 

Congrats x 10 - if only G&G would put proper robust electrics in their guns to begin with

You had kinda figured it out yourself anyway - very well done sir & enjoy ya gun

[WhatsMyName]

So Mosfet issues sorted.

But battery problems persist.

So it will be either charger- vapex or batteries.

I also built ugly diy 2000+ mah 6 cell.

Just slightly concerned that I shimmed the box too tight- there is motor/gear whine present. It does change the tone slightly when adjusting worm screw in pistol grip but seems bit loud.

 

 

 

Also on empty it produces lovely loud thud and a bit of what I'd describe as "piston slap"

[Samurai]

Yep, that's really loud and slow. It sounds that it's too tight somewhere.

[WhatsMyName]

On 17/09/2017 at 10:06 AM, Samurai said:

Yep, that's really loud and slow. It sounds that it's too tight somewhere.

 

Thanks for feedback.

That's best I could do today (did it in about 70 mins I had free).

All 3 gears have abouts 0.01 space in between them and no movement in the case. Alk spin freely. I could still improve pinion to bevel but not much I think.

Also I'm only a noob but listening from up close makes me think it's just how this motor sounds.

Oem G&G motor with stupid "Powerful Motor" sticker.

[madmogga]

if you think the shims are ok and gears spin free then try the motor height, small 1/4 turns and listen with each trigger pull to see if it helps 

 

Edit - sorry just noticed you said you have tried that sorry my bad 

[WhatsMyName]

Maybe not enough tho.

I noticed today that worm screw actually goes quite far in. So I'll retry after the weekend.

 

Battery issue still persist tho. 

Batteries are at 11.2V one of them sort of moves motor, other doesnt.

Also one mosfer turns motor about 1 revolution (behaves like it's jammed) and other turns motor as it should.

 

Never expected so many issues when I considered starting airsoft, but now I won't untill everything is at 100%

[Sitting Duck]

Your motor height AND bevel to pinion shimming is way way out.....

 

 

The motor height is never really guessed (only Mr Spock can make accurate guesses)

The motor height is checked and set in alignment with pinion to bevel

Then the bevel is shimmed to pinion once the motor height has already been determined & set

You should never need to tweak the motor height more than 1/2 turn either way

If you find that you need to wind it in/out a considerable bit then your motor height and/shimming you did was out

 

I don't think there is one single guide that explains it all or a straight forward 101% foolproof method

 

There is this that explains the motor height to bevel issue....

 

 

But you kinda have to feel what you think is best slight lash or a little tiny bit under shim on the bevel

Or the " walk " as Rogers calls it......

The motor height is set correctly, then bevel shimmed up against the pinion but not too tight/loose

If you search for Rogers " shut up gears " - spread over about 3 clips & measurement tools etc....

But jeez are they shimmed sweet....

 

I don't think I fully agree 101% with any video - balanced against what is realistic etc.....

But you should watch and fully understand the utmost importance of pinion to bevel & as close to perfection shimming

Get this bit out of whack and the whole gun is f*cked....

If over shimmed then as the pinion meshes fully it creates extra strain of bevel smashed against the bushing or gearbox

or if under shimmed the pinion keeps getting wound in further & further until the tip of pinion is rubbing on AR lugs of bevel

 

Normally....

AND this no way even a rough guide to even begin to go by as different bevels have teeth cut in deeper or shallower....

LOOK at the bevel in center....

its teeth are cut much higher than other two bevels on left/right so you can understand the shimming of bevel will not be same

So you can't just assume or take anything as a given oh about 0.25mm will do - coz it bloody won't

 

IF you had bushings in a G&G std box thenabout 0.20mm MIGHT do as a very rough guess

HOWEVER if you have used bearings then these sit much lower than bushings giving you more space to shim up on all gears

So this figure on top of bevel could be 0.40mm to 0.60mm

 

THIS ISN'T EVEN A WILD GUESS - I don't use bearings as a rule so can't even begin to guess

But I'd lay money it is much more than bushings would ever need

 

From what you say that the motor is wound in quite a lot then I'd take a stab that the bevel is undershimmed

By that the shimming on top of bevel is too little and your motor is far in to mesh and pinion rubbing on bevel AR lugs

(been there done that thinking yeah it spins ok - I have got this shimming malarky sussed - WRONG !!!!)

 

Watch first video, see bevel on one half of box, grip+motor fitted - set the height of motor and keep that setting

Try to gauge not guess the shims required on top of the bevel using whatever technique you feel is best

(there are loads of methods)

 

If you have to wind the motor in say a full turn or more you likely have under shimmed the bevel

If you have to wind the motor out say a full turn or more you likely have over shimmed the bevel

 

Your motor pinion to bevel should meet like the GOOD picture - max teeth meshing with a absolute whisper of walk

The moment you wind in/out the motor and they no longer mesh as effectively the energy is not being transmitted 101%

Resistance builds, heat/amps rise, fuses/mosfets blow and gun stalls - sounds familiar ????

 

99% sure your issue is shimming - mainly motor height pinion to bevel etc.....

 

There is also a very slight chance you can get similar issues if you have a very tight piston binding in the box

A new piston that binds a lot will slow the gun - even stall it in extreme cases

Rate of fire - even fps can be robbed in a slow returning piston

pistons can bind at the rear of box or in some cases a bad piston can bottom out

though in your case the gun is straining always so don't think piston is bottoming out on full retraction

It might be binding but tbh I doubt it with what other things you have said - 99% ya motor height/shimming is crap

 

Won't hurt to check piston for binding if you have ever replaced the stock piston at some point

But reckon you needto set motor height and reshim the bevel properly

Also do not shim the gears too tightly - if there isn't about 0.1mm to 0.15mm side play on all 3 gears you are shimming too tightly

 

Other issues like motor angle etc... if you changed pistol grip etc...but I reckon you need to set motor height

then quite possibly need to add a bit more on top of bevel

 

THIS IS A ROUGH - VERY ROUGH GUESS ONLY - YOU NEED TO CHECK STUFF YOURSELF !!!!

 

Hopefully you have or will soon understand exactly first hand where the shimming is out and where you need address the issue

Hope some of this crap helps, I've been there many times at first so feel your despair at your gun running poorly

[WhatsMyName]

 

All done.

 

Shimming;

Started from bevel up and its much better compared to shimming sector side down.

 

Battery;

In essence VAPEXTECH sent me busted batteries. They have also given me a lot of attitude, refused accepting return and kept ingnoring my emails.

 

AVOID VAPEXTECH like fire!