Zac_hall97 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Hello, I am trying to do a high speed set up for my Sig 556 but have come across an issue which can resolve and I'm needing some advice on the possible problem I have encountered.....when I pull the trigger it fires 1-3 times before the piston is stuck all the way back...every time I pull the trigger from then on I hear the motor trying to turn but won't. I have this loverly stuff in the gear box; systema super torque motor Shs 13:1 gears - shimmed with lonex shims Lonex or shs 7mm steel bushing Shs anti reversal latch Lonex m100 spring Lonex ball bearing spring guide Lonex pom piston head Stock cylinder Lonex cylinder head 16awg wires MOSFET Using a 9.6ni-mh battery Also deans connectors Not too sure if my piston is going too far back which cause the last tooth to get stuck against the piston:/ Any advice will help Cheers Zac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProPain87 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 If it was me I'd try a stronger spring and short stroke to bring down fps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Take everything out of the gearbox and put it back together with just the piston and cylinder. Check the piston can travel fully back and forth without sticking in any way. Now fit the spring guide and sector gear in addition to the piston and cylinder. With something skinny inserted through the hole in the back of the gearbox, push the piston fully forward. Use another pokey thing to turn the sector gear, pushing the piston back against a light pressure. Does it travel the full distance and release correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 1 hour ago, ProPain87 said: If it was me I'd try a stronger spring and short stroke to bring down fps And given the problem the OP is experiencing, that was about the most unhelpful thing you could say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProPain87 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 26 minutes ago, Hangtight said: And given the problem the OP is experiencing, that was about the most unhelpful thing you could say. Apologies if my advice was wrong. Could it not maybe have been caused by PE? That was why I suggested that. Even once he's fixed the problem surely he would still be better to up to a stronger spring and SS to prevent PE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 With that gearing and battery it shouldn't hit PE. It's a poor choice for a M100 build, but first things first though, let's figure out what's going wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zac_hall97 Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 i will check all this when i get home! thanks for your help so far.... i will be buying a bigger spring when i get it all working didn't want to buy things i might not need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 What rates of fire are you aiming for, and at what fps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zac_hall97 Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, Hangtight said: The Systema Super Torque is a 20TPA (I think) slow running torque motorFirst. With that gearing and battery if won't get anywhere near PE. It's a poor choice for a M100 build, but first things first though, let's figure out what's going wrong. what does PE stand for?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zac_hall97 Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 Just now, Hangtight said: What rates of fire are you aiming for, and at what fps? 25-30rps not a high stress build more of a medium but want it as close to 340-350fps. what it for CQB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 As far as I can find out the Systema motor is 15TPA, which should give you the 25 rps you're after if you run it on 7.4v lipo, perhaps a little more. At that level you're on the edge of PE, which stands for Premature Engagement. what it means is that the piston hasn't completed its forward travel before the sector gear comes around again. Bad, bad, not good. The reason I mention lipo is because they are much more suited to delivering the power required. Although the NiMh might seem better because of the higher voltage, as soon as they're put under load the voltage sags. The 7.4v lipo will actually give the same rate of fire and better trigger response. It will also do it until the battery is exhausted whereas the NiMh will get gradually worse until it's useless. For the fps you want, stick with the M100 spring, lighten the piston by removing the bearing and replacing it with a light plastic space, run on decent 7.4v Lipo. If you want more rps you're looking at a lot more involved build, but to be honest, 20rps with good trigger response rocks. More won't make you a better player. If you want to get more hits, simply get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zac_hall97 Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 2 hours ago, Hangtight said: As far as I can find out the Systema motor is 15TPA, which should give you the 25 rps you're after if you run it on 7.4v lipo, perhaps a little more. At that level you're on the edge of PE, which stands for Premature Engagement. what it means is that the piston hasn't completed its forward travel before the sector gear comes around again. Bad, bad, not good. The reason I mention lipo is because they are much more suited to delivering the power required. Although the NiMh might seem better because of the higher voltage, as soon as they're put under load the voltage sags. The 7.4v lipo will actually give the same rate of fire and better trigger response. It will also do it until the battery is exhausted whereas the NiMh will get gradually worse until it's useless. For the fps you want, stick with the M100 spring, lighten the piston by removing the bearing and replacing it with a light plastic space, run on decent 7.4v Lipo. If you want more rps you're looking at a lot more involved build, but to be honest, 20rps with good trigger response rocks. More won't make you a better player. If you want to get more hits, simply get better. I have check the piston and it slides fine no snags and it also slide fine with gear and spring guide.....I think what you on about with the pe is off cause that will explain the couple of shots before it stops. How would you go about correcting this?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Did you check you can wind the piston right back using the sector gear to the point where the sector clears the piston? Also check that no parts of the spring guide have come unscrewed. I've had this happen. It causes the spring to fall into the gap in the spring guide, the spring goes crooked and jams the piston back. Pre engagement doesn't tend to jam the piston back. It just smashes teeth off stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zac_hall97 Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, Hangtight said: Did you check you can wind the piston right back using the sector gear to the point where the sector clears the piston? Also check that no parts of the spring guide have come unscrewed. I've had this happen. It causes the spring to fall into the gap in the spring guide, the spring goes crooked and jams the piston back. Pre engagement doesn't tend to jam the piston back. It just smashes teeth off stuff. The piston goes all the way back fine but the spring guide seems to be loosing not too sure if it goes more rigid when the spring is in place VID_20170613_225236.mp4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zac_hall97 Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 The spring guide is still able to live up and down even when spring is in:/ is this bad....could this be the problem?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 It shouldn't do, but welcome to the world of Airsoft 'standards' where stuff that should work doesn't. What piston is that by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zac_hall97 Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, Hangtight said: It shouldn't do, but welcome to the world of Airsoft 'standards' where stuff that should work doesn't. What piston is that by the way? It's a lonex blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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