PT247

DOGTAG Airsoft - Holmbush Farm, Horsham

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This is a large woodland site with various play areas and game types ranging from short high energy games to longer waypoint or mission based games, it doesn't currently run milsim events though so if you are looking to play solidly without returning to the safe zone except for tea and stickies after the war is won and the sun has set it may not be for you. It does however have some amazing fields set up; the SAM site being my favourite at the moment.... which may change when they get the helicopter set up in another field! :D They also run night games roughly once a month over the summer with really well thought out lighting so it allows for sneaky-beaky still but stops the falling over tree stumps that happens in unlit fields. They have put filters on the lights now too which stops them dazzling attacking forces. Game days are fortnightly (ish) and it costs currently £25 for the full day with lunch included. The organisers are very friendly and the marshalling has improved massively this last year with focus on those that think they are bullet proof or better than they actually are to ensure fair fire-fights and happy customers. The last few months have seen player numbers increase and we regularly have over 100 people playing, most I've seen was around 150.

 

Today's skirmish we had around 120 players, we also had "Airsoft Action" magazine visit for the day too. When arriving everyone signs in, finds a place to set up (in the newly improved and enlarged covered table areas in the safe zone, all guns are chrono'd and tagged and then you are given a bit of time to get all your kit sorted out. The safety brief was carried out covering all the bases you'd expect from a woodland site.

 

Normally the first game is more of a warm up to get us all in the zone, today was no exception but due to the numbers we were split into 4 teams (2x red teams and 2x blue teams). 1x red and 1x blue team went off to the VX Gas field and the other 2 went to the Black Box field, on each field each team fought from both ends, once the 2 rounds of each game was completed we swapped fields with the other 2 teams. When it was our turn on the VX Gas field my HPA G5 DMR stopped feeding BBs half way through so I popped back to the safe zone to grab my Evo 3 AEG for the second half. The VX Gas game is quite an energetic game if you want it to be but can also be quite tactical too and the side we were playing against absolutely annihilated us on points due to some really good use of smoke grenades, I was doing pretty good at holding my own while using the DMR but suffered a bit switching to the Evo so utilised my TAG grenades and shower grenades to good effect but unfortunately we lost the second half too, All good fun though :D

 

After a quick turn around in the safe zone to reload etc we all went back into the Blackbox field and played a very quick turnaround game to decide who would be attacking or defending the final game of the day, again there were 2 rounds swapping ends at half time, here we got our own back for the previous game and managed to secure the objective on both halves. There was some really good fire-fights going on and I really enjoyed the game play :-)

 

As we won that game the next meant we had to defend the SAM site, the attackers had to find a briefcase with a timer fitted to it and plant it in the SAM launcher, unfortunately they didn't stand a chance, we really dominated them holding them back effectively until the last 15min where there was no re-spawn so we fell back into tighter defensive positions and held them off for the rest of the game. I unfortunately got shot out with around 7min to go by a team mate (shot in the back of my ear lobe - ouch! lol).

 

During this game my Evo began to have feed problems too, thankfully I don't live too far from the site so scooted off home at lunch and picked up my trusty RM4. The RM4 is an amazing gun, I'm not saying it has as good range as my DMR but it massively out ranges my Evo 3 (which isn't too shabby for range/accuracy either)! I just about had time to throw some pizza in me gob and swig some coke after reloading all the M4 mags and it was time to go out again.

 

Due to us winning the earlier objective on the Blackbox field we were now the attacking force on a waypoint game which was pretty bloody epic to say the least. Considering we had 60 people on our side all with differing experience at playing airsoft we all worked very well together, everyone was very communicative and pointed out contacts as they saw them, we were pretty aggressive too in making progress, there were times where it felt like we were advancing as a whole unit in a long line through the woodland taking out the enemy as we progressed, kerflippin awesome it was! :D We made good time pushing them back and to victory allowing us to input the security code into the missile launcher and watch it fire across the valley (or that is what would have happened had there not been a slight technical hic-up which turned the rocket into more of a Catherine Wheel than the fearful missile it was supposed to be, lol :D

 

Due to our swift win there was time for a very quick warm down game where I fired off the grenades I'd had charged and then died rather quickly after :$

 

This site continues to get better and better, I really feel lucky to have it so close to my home and know as friends the majority of the regulars.

I definately recommend giving it a try if you've not been before :-)

AvidAirsofter776 likes this

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Dogtag Airsoft, Holmbush was featured in Airsoft Action Magazine this month and had an amazing review. The journalist was so impressed with the site he has become a member :-)

IMG_20150224_164216_zpskijm0bii.jpg

 

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DSC_0024_zpsbzydji8c.jpg

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Located in West Sussex between Crawley and Horsham this massive site has acres of woodland with a variety of different playing fields including Forts villages a large CQB area.

With a covered safe area and all the facilities you require including a shop, battery charging and a range.

With experienced staff a variety of games and a safety first attitude you can't go wrong for a great day out.....or night as night games are also run on special times throughout the year.

I'm biased as it's my local site but if your in the South you got to try it.

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This place looks awesome 😉. Shame im so far away hahaha, it's a shame how few sites there are in south Wales lol.

PT247 likes this

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@PT247 I actually might go to the game on the 8th of January. You say a decent amount of people turn up? I read that review about it and it sounds great but I hadn't even heard of it until recently. I'm assuming you would recommend it and do you have any idea if it will be a good turnout that day?

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You should def visit mate. Between 100-200 people on most days although so close to Christmas may mean less have the dosh so couldn't say to be sure. I'll be there though so if you see me come say hi! :-)

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Cool. Are they tight on eye pro being full seal and that or can I run mesh goggles or ones with a gap around the frame. I know some places get funny with that but I fog up often (I know it's winter but I'm a sweaty bitch when I get running haha).

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I just use ballistic glasses. If you are under 18 then you'll need full face protection. They are strict on the chrono though and use their own 0.2g BBs when testing your fps.

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Ah, another place that doesn't understand how Joule creep works. Usually coupled with a distinct distrust of HPA in the long run because of all the people shooting hot with .30s.

 

Does sound like an excellent site overall though.

PT247 and Monty like this

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Ah, another place that doesn't understand how Joule creep works. Usually coupled with a distinct distrust of HPA in the long run because of all the people shooting hot with .30s.

 

Does sound like an excellent site overall though.

yup, but all systems fail as folk can cheat any system if they are that way inclined.

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Yes, but there's a key difference here: Joule creep is - in the vast majority of cases - done inadvertently and with innocent intentions; outright switching weights to make your ft/s lower is more nefarious. A site deserves a reputation if it has frequent cheaters not being kept in check, but if a site isn't doing its due diligence and letting well-meaning players shoot hotter than they should then that's just an unnecessary risk to their reputation and people's safety.

 

Really what this boils down to is site owners not knowing GCSE level physics (though I know in this case that's probably not it as it's not like they're letting people approach the cronograph with any weight they want), and I find that inexcusable. Even printing a BB ft/s chart, having it laminated and distributed to marshals is an easy fix. There's no excuse for just asking people what weight they're using and then crono-ing off that, but I suppose if they're more worried about people lying than they are Joule creep then that's fair. My concern is that HPA (particularly HPA/CO2 sniper rifle conversion use) is on a significant rise in the UK, and it's a dangerous game to play for the sake of saving a little time at the crono. We're clever enough here not to have a west coast US situation where HPA is really quite persecuted because of how slack staff have been over 2-3 years.

 

If it starts to become a real issue for any site (cheating, that is) then the long-term solution is somewhat simple in my eyes - a £10 set of digital scales and a table; pick 1 in every 5 players as they reach the crono to have a couple of BBs taken from their mag and weighed. Mistakes happen and I'm sure that could be accounted for with just a verbal warning, but it lets repeat and deliberate offenders know they could be caught (generally that's enough). Short-term this can be ramped up to weighing every player's BBs if there are frequent reports of foul play.

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I have my own Chrono and a Laminated FPS/BB weight chart and have a GBB that will just scrape through a chrono on 0.2g but it shoots terribly with poor accuracy. If I use 0.3g it shoots great but is too hot and I wouldn't want to use it at any site as I don't see it as safe.

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I have my own Chrono and a Laminated FPS/BB weight chart and have a GBB that will just scrape through a chrono on 0.2g but it shoots terribly with poor accuracy. If I use 0.3g it shoots great but is too hot and I wouldn't want to use it at any site as I don't see it as safe.

 

I'm going to have to turn down my NPAS a bit, but I like using .25+ it just adds so much accuracy. Good thing I have .2s and a chronograph here so I can check but I'm still going to use .25s at games.

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I'm going to have to turn down my NPAS a bit, but I like using .25+ it just adds so much accuracy. Good thing I have .2s and a chronograph here so I can check but I'm still going to use .25s at games.

Na, that's the exact thing one shouldn't do. Crono with the heaviest weight you'll use on the day else you're open to Joule creep. Sorry :S

 

As a GBBR user you're pretty susceptible to creep anyway so it's a good idea to be familiar with it. The basic rule is though that you crono with the heaviest you'll use on the day - the crono will show a lower result than expected (e.g. around 330ft/s for a site with a limit of 350ft/s) with the .20s they measure with, but when you put your desired weight in you'll be shooting where you should be and it'll be site legal. Do the opposite (i.e. making sure you're shooting on the line with .20s at home) and that's when your .25s or .30s will be hot.

 

Edit:

This is all far more confusing than it should be because sites insist upon measuring ft/s instead of Joules, so it requires conversion charts like this one. If you have any questions then it's all in the search, however in essence: A site with a limit of 350ft/s on a .2g is really wanting a muzzle energy of 1.14J (this is the site standard for the UK, but some places go for 335ft/s or 1.04J):

  • for a .25g BB, 1.14J is ~315ft/s
  • for a .30g BB, 1.14J is ~285ft/s
  • etc.

The problem comes when an overvolumised barrel (particularly like a non-solenoid HPA, gun with poorly tuned dwell on an electric solenoid HPA, GBBR or gas sniper rifle etc.) shoots a higher muzzle energy than expected because a heavier BB has a longer time for the air/green gas/duster gas to exert force/transfer energy to it - that means a higher muzzle energy - and when converted back a higher ft/s - than expected. For example, a gun that shoots 350ft/s at the crono with a .20g can end up shooting 305ft/s with a .30g instead of the allowed 285ft/s. Because the heavier weight isn't measured, Joule creep can end up getting through unchecked.

 

I'm fairly convinced this is a major contributor to why people think HPA is being used by cheaters, because it is (inadvertently) due to over-volumised barrels and the generally heavier weights that HPA users opt for. The same happens for GBBRs, but not quite as easily as with HPA and also not at such a high rate of fire.

 

Also consider switching to .30s for a GBBR in woodland to shoot slightly furthererer. Srs.

PT247 and Dysperse like this

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Na, that's the exact thing one shouldn't do. Crono with the heaviest weight you'll use on the day else you're open to Joule creep. Sorry :S

 

As a GBBR user you're pretty susceptible to creep anyway so it's a good idea to be familiar with it. The basic rule is though that you crono with the heaviest you'll use on the day - the crono will show a lower result than expected (e.g. around 330ft/s for a site with a limit of 350ft/s) with the .20s they measure with, but when you put your desired weight in you'll be shooting where you should be and it'll be site legal. Do the opposite (i.e. making sure you're shooting on the line with .20s at home) and that's when your .25s or .30s will be hot.

 

Edit:

This is all far more confusing than it should be because sites insist upon measuring ft/s instead of Joules, so it requires conversion charts like this one. If you have any questions then it's all in the search, however in essence: A site with a limit of 350ft/s on a .2g is really wanting a muzzle energy of 1.14J (this is the site standard for the UK, but some places go for 335ft/s or 1.04J):

 

  • for a .25g BB, 1.14J is ~315ft/s
  • for a .30g BB, 1.14J is ~285ft/s
  • etc.
The problem comes when an overvolumised barrel (particularly like a non-solenoid HPA, gun with poorly tuned dwell on an electric solenoid HPA, GBBR or gas sniper rifle etc.) shoots a higher muzzle energy than expected because a heavier BB has a longer time for the air/green gas/duster gas to exert force/transfer energy to it - that means a higher muzzle energy - and when converted back a higher ft/s - than expected. For example, a gun that shoots 350ft/s at the crono with a .20g can end up shooting 305ft/s with a .30g instead of the allowed 285ft/s. Because the heavier weight isn't measured, Joule creep can end up getting through unchecked.

 

I'm fairly convinced this is a major contributor to why people think HPA is being used by cheaters, because it is (inadvertently) due to over-volumised barrels and the generally heavier weights that HPA users opt for. The same happens for GBBRs, but not quite as easily as with HPA and also not at such a high rate of fire.

 

Also consider switching to .30s for a GBBR in woodland to shoot slightly furthererer. Srs.

Well thanks. Does it not make a difference if I change the weight of the bb in the chrono options?

Plus I'll take a look at .30s. I did try my friends .32s and they felt a little sluggish but they still went a good way so... I do completely understand they'll be more accurate though.

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Well thanks. Does it not make a difference if I change the weight of the bb in the chrono options?

What he is saying is that in a perfect world you chrono on the BBs you intend to use in game, you tell the marshall chronoing what weight you are using and he converts the reading to joules giving a true energy level of your gun. Using a different chrono setting for weight will allow the chrono to do the math on energy level but ONLY if you are actually using the weight of BB you state at the time of chronoing.

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What he is saying is that in a perfect world you chrono on the BBs you intend to use in game, you tell the marshall chronoing what weight you are using and he converts the reading to joules giving a true energy level of your gun. Using a different chrono setting for weight will allow the chrono to do the math on energy level but ONLY if you are actually using the weight of BB you state at the time of chronoing.

Fair enough. I don't want to be the guy shooting too hot and ruining anyone's day. Cheers guys I'll double check in the right threads some more about joule creep.

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One of the reasons I use 0.3g BBs in my AEG is because my gun runs hot on 0.2 and 0.2g BBs when the hop is set for each. When running 0.3g BBs (with the hop set for them) it is a tad lower than 1.14j on both 0.3g and 0.2g BBs. This is not the same discussion as above but it is also a factor that should be taken into consideration, the hop MUST be set for the weight of BB you intend to use else the reading could be low (it could also read high) meaning a gun could pass the chrono with less or more hop than it will be skirmished with, but when set to the weight intended it could be hot.

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Fair enough. I don't want to be the guy shooting too hot and ruining anyone's day. Cheers guys I'll double check in the right threads some more about joule creep.

It is as Prof said, more often than not done inadvertently by not realising how GBBRs etc work (and how hop affects it too).

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On the subject of the cronograph - you don't need to tell them which you'll be using. Just crono at home with the right ones and your gun will come in maybe 5-10% lower on site with the .20g BBs (basically Joule creep working in the opposite direction). Once those .30s go in, however, you'll be back to site limits. Again though, you might have zero creep and will hit just where you want to on both .20g and .30g, (though this is unlikely with a GBBR). The reason I don't think that's a solution for the whole Joule creep problem in general is because it relies on the player to make sure they're compliant when it comes to creep.

 

The solution as I see it is to ask players which weight BB they have in their gun at the crono and then measure muzzle energy in Joules (and perhaps a very occasional spot-check of BB weights just to keep cheaters on their toes). The one way around this of course is to bring .20s with you to the crono and then switch them to something heavier when you go out. Ultimately - like PT says - there's no way to ever stop someone determined enough, but crono-ing on intended weight just stops accidental Joule creep by those who don't know better (which in my opinion makes up the majority of hot guns) and helps prevent animosity towards the GBBR and HPA users that tend to run those types of guns.

 

For the BBs, I'd also add that .30s will get to your target just as well as .20s barring a slight difference at sub-15 metre engagement distances as they shed their energy in flight far slower so make up for that lost time later in their trajectory. This is another reason why HPA and GBB users sometimes get flak, because their BBs do hit harder further out (which people misconstrue as a hot gun).

 

There was that very scientific test done some years back. I always always forget the name of it but usually it's jcheese who posts the link so if he sees this then maybe he can so I can find the relevant graph (i.e. the one that shows time to target with heavier projectiles) as it's some up a few times on here previously.

 

If .35s were commonly available and affordable then I know I'd go even higher - .30s are reasonably priced though for people not spamming too much. ASG blasters are good if you're looking for a brand and Green Devils are also great as a bio option (but a little expensive).

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It is a ball ache but I use what works best in my gun which are 0.3g. Everything is setup for 0.3g including the hop and with all standard internals its to hot on the 0.3g but if I use 0.2g it will pass on a chrono!

 

Have just ordered an adjustable NPAS!!!

proffrink and PT247 like this

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So I chronographed on .2s earlier and it was shooting around the 450-460 mark... yikes. I turned it down to 310ish on .25s and then tried again with the .2s, this time it was at around 320ish. So that's what you meant about the joule creep aha. Should be skirmishable now I hope.

proffrink and PT247 like this

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